Reasons for Being Pro-Life or Pro-Choice

[Cat]

Its the foolish mentality that all women want cute widdle babies. No, not all of us. I sure as hell do not. Some are meant to be mothers, some are not.

(ugh was just reminded of when my aunt told me that I should change my cousin's kids diapers as "practice," or more recently having on of my mom's students over for a dinner, and the mother saying "oh good, now you can baby sit.")

[Rapscallion]

So the average young guy would be clear in a couple of days?

Beat me to it!

Rapscallion

[Cat]

Beat me to it!

Rapscallion

SO many dirty things I can say now. I'll just grin.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Its the foolish mentality that all women want cute widdle babies. No, not all of us. I sure as hell do not. Some are meant to be mothers, some are not.

That mentallity always annoys me. Like once when I was showing a friend a photo of my niece, and she said, "Doesn't holding her make you feel all broody?" Er, no. No it doesn't. -.- A lot of people see a woman who doesn't want children as being some strange, unnatural creature.

[AFPheonix]

It always amused me that the most conservative among us want the most government intrusion into other people's lives. I guess as long as that intrusion goes along with their world view then it's all right as far as they're concerned.

If you don't agree with abortion, fine, don't get one. It's simply that easy. But if someone else doesn't share your concern, then butt out.

My desire for freedom from tyranny is why I'm pro-choice.

[Amanita]

Even in the supposedly openminded Pagan community, I have caught flak for not wanting kids. "Oh, but it's so magical, you're carrying a life inside of you"
One writer in Pangaia magazine even said that childfree Pagans are childish and rejecting the lessons of the devine, since the only way we can appreciate the lessons of the God and Goddess as mother and father is to become mothers and fathers ourselves. Well, one of my patron Goddesses is Sekhmet- warrior and healer. Do I have to join the military or go to med school to appreciate and understand her? Or would I be better served by asking "What makes a good warrior? What makes a good healer?" and striving to emulate those virtues, even if I don't become a soldier or a nurse?
A good warrior stands up for themselves and others, practices honour and loyalty, and is courageous when they need to be. A good healer should have love and compassion to give. Surely it's possible to strive for those things without literally changing my profession?
Likewise with the virtues of a good parent. And who says that all of us Pagans worship the Gods in their mother and father aspect? P'tah is known as the Architect of the Universe, not the father. And Isis (aka Auset) is known for a helluvalot of things besides her mother aspect. She is known for fighting like hell on behalf of the people she cared for, standing up against evil yet still practicing mercy (by refusing to kill Set when she had the chance), She is also known as a powerful magician..many other aspects besides her mothering one.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Well, one of my patron Goddesses is Sekhmet- warrior and healer. Do I have to join the military or go to med school to appreciate and understand her? Or would I be better served by asking "What makes a good warrior? What makes a good healer?" and striving to emulate those virtues, even if I don't become a soldier or a nurse?

Wonder what those people would say if your goddess was Artemis, virgin huntress? I don't know much about the whole patron goddess thing.

I know about kids, despite not having any; firstly, I was a child once myself and second cuz I've looked after kids a lot so I know firsthand about the bad stuff involved.

As for "it's magical to have children" does that include baby sick, green baby poop and non stop screaming? O_o The mind boggles.

[anakhouri]

I doubt I could ever choose abortion. And I am appalled by late-term abortions; I think those are just sickening.

That said, women have been oppressed for thousands of years thanks to their reproductive capabilities. This should be a choice. The government should not have a hand in it. Every person has a right to choose and face the consequences.

I do think women who choose abortion should be extensively counseled beforehand and the clinics need to make sure they understand all their options. Having an abortion is traumatic and women need to be prepared for the aftereffects.

[Amanita]

Right on, Anakhouri. For thousands of years, the attitude towards woman has been one of two things- Either We can reproduce, therefore we MUST, or we can reproduce, it's ALL we're good for. Some Pagans see in childbearing the root of women's power. Others see in it the root of oppression. I side with the latter camp, because of the attitudes that for so long have held us back.

And yes, that Pagan breederbrained woman DID mention the bodily fluids and screeches that children are famous for- her attitude seemed to be that these were a part of having kids, and anyone who didn't want that in their lives was shallow and selfish. I've seen some real hate exhibited towards childfrees who like to travel, like how dare we be hedonistic and travel, when we could be using that money on children?

I can't speak for all childfree travellers, but I like going places. Looking at a picture of the Golden Gate Bridge is nothing, nothing at all compared to seeing its majesty in person, or actually feeling the shivering of its suspender ropes under my fingers. If I could not do the things I want to in life because everything had to be sacrificed to care for a child, I know I would resent the hell out of that child. That's not a fair thing to put a kid through, so I don't.

FYI, if I wanted an abortion, I would NOT want to be forced to go through extensive councilling. If it were offered as an option, okay fine. Some women who are conflicted might appreciate it, to help them work out where their true feelings lie. But I would not want to be forced to go through councilling when my mind is firmly made up, every minute pregnant feels like another minute trapped, and all I want is to GET IT OUT OF ME. If I feel bad afterward, that's my problem to work through, and I would not wish to be made to sit through a lot of councilling "to protect me from myself", which is how I would percieve being made to go through such.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I agree. I'm way too selfish to have kids. I want to stay out all night and get drunk, smoke, go to concerts, and spend my spare cash on myself. I don't want to be tied down with a screaming baby and sacrifice everything.

[jedimaster91]

Personally I advocate adoption over abortion. I know the problems with CPS and "the system" (a large part of the problem IMO is that it's run by the government, but that's a separate rant). But there ARE really GOOD adoption agencies out there.

One of my best friends has been trying for a baby for years. She and her husband have gone through all the fertility testing and have been told the chances of them having their own kids are slim to none. They would provide a stable, loving home for any child, so why do they deserve a baby any less? They are looking to adopt in the near future. A lady that played a large role in my husband's upbringing adopted all three of her kids. They're great kids whom I love dearly.

With so many couples out there who want kids and can't have them, why abort? Sure, it takes work to find a good adoption agency and good adoptive parents, but why shouldn't people like my friend who want kids but can't have their own, not have them?

[Lace Neil Singer]

Cuz as I have already stated, pregnancy wrecks the body and can in fact be dangerous for a woman's physical or mental wellbeing? I am not a vessel; as far as I'm concerned, I am not going to put myself thru nine months of torture and fuck knows how many hours of childbirth just so that people like your friend can adopt. That is why.

You know, there are loads of older kids festering in children's homes who deserve to be adopted more than babies; the kids who are not "perfect" so don't get a look in cuz they have Downs, are autistic or have something else that means they get passed over. Why add to them? I have Aspergers so it's possible a kid of mine would, too. Not perfect, so would get shoved in a children's home to rot.

[anakhouri]

But abortion is also dangerous and can wreak havoc on a woman's psychology. My friend's sister had one at a young age and it was very, very hard on her. That's why I think abortion clinics should provide extensive counseling both before and after. No one strolls into an abortion clinic and waltzes out unchanged.

I think knowing that your child would be raised by a loving family that you could not provide would ease the pain of giving it up for adoption.

I promote adoption (I and my brother are both adopted) but as I said, it's a choice. I think people who choose abortion are in a very, very difficult situation and I can't judge them.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I don't want a child, and I don't want to be pregnant. I am doing everything I can, within my power, to prevent that. Why should I be punished by being forced to carry a parasite for nine months, hmm? I wouldn't honestly be giving a toss about the possibility of a family adopting the creature, I'd just want it out of me as soon as possible.

I've suffered from clinical depression the past; it's not outside the realms of possibility that, tormented by constant screeching from a baby, I'd shove a pillow over its face. That possibility scares me half to death, so I won't put myself in that position.

[jedimaster91]

Yes, pregnancy is hard on a woman. It's also one of the possible consequnces of having sex and I personally do NOT support abortion as a means of birth control.

You know, there are loads of older kids festering in children's homes who deserve to be adopted more than babies; the kids who are not "perfect" so don't get a look in cuz they have Downs, are autistic or have something else that means they get passed over. Why add to them? I have Aspergers so it's possible a kid of mine would, too. Not perfect, so would get shoved in a children's home to rot.

You're completely right. One of our local news stations just recently did a story on older kids waiting to be adopted. It takes a special kind of person to adopt an older child and/or a special needs child. Those people are out there. My younger sister might be one of them. She swears because of her dislike of small children that she's going to adopt teenagers someday. I wish her all the luck in the world if she goes through with it because some of those kids are seriously messed up.