Reasons for Being Pro-Life or Pro-Choice

[Dasota]

As someone who in the past has said "I'm pro-choice, but could never get one myself" I say you never know until you're in that situation. And I was, very recently, and there are a huge number of reasons why I got it done. One of them being, I want to go to school, and my boyfriend is in school. We are in no way ready to have a kid.

As for adoption? It's not as easy as it sounds. *Insert what other have said about all the kids out there already*

Also, in the short time I was pregnant, everything fucking smelled and was disgusting. I couldn't eat. I was getting motion sick from walking down the damn street. Also, I smoke, and I'll be the first to admit I'm selfish and I wouldn't want to quit.

[fireheart17]

Yes, pregnancy is hard on a woman. It's also one of the possible consequnces of having sex and I personally do NOT support abortion as a means of birth control.

Nobody's saying that abortion IS used as birth control. In fact, if you read one of the websites I quoted in my earlier post (the WebMD one), more than half of the abortions are due to contraceptive FAILURE. Doesn't mean lack of contraception altogether. It could mean that the condom broke, the pill didn't work for one reason or another or that the Implanon was inserted at the wrong time.

Women were not put on this planet for the sole purpose of becoming baby making machines. I'd like to see that being told to young girls:

"Ah yeah, I wouldn't worry about those dreams of becoming a doctor, a lawyer or a model, because the second you have sex, you're expected to become a breeding machine."

Here's an interesting question for everyone...and this includes pro-lifers and pro-CHOICERS (I'm emphasizing this for a reason-pro-ABORTION doesn't exist)

Is it possible to be pro-life and anti-contraception at the same time? Like I asked earlier, virginity/purity/celibacy programs do not work...only 3% tend to hold out until their wedding day.

[Cat]

I am adopted, and totally support anyone who wants to adopt a kid (or 2, or 3 what have you)

However, just because I am pro-adoption and the fact there are couples out there that cannot have children doesn't mean that if me bf and I have a opps (the pill and condom fail) I'll think "Ok, I'll just pop it out, someone will want it." Nada.

I get my mothering "needs" through the cats....I care for, cuddle, love the furry lil f***s, but I can ditch them to go drinking and/or hike up north.

Once of my middle school sci teachers had the best bumper sticker: "Against abortion? Don't have one."

[Ghel]

It seems that everybody who has posted to this thread is pro-choice. The reason I say this is because, if you really were pro-life, you would support the idea of prison terms for a woman who has an abortion. Even if you feel very strongly that abortions are wrong, if you don't think it's worth making a law against it, then you leave it up to the woman's choice.

[BookstoreEscapee]

Sorry I'm making a really long post; I'm responding to a bunch of people (I don't come here too often...but this is a subject I feel strongly about). See my sig to find out what side I'm on...

Sometimes when abortion is being discussed, people will say things like, "I oppose abortion except for in cases of rape and incest." Admittedly, I have made similar statements in the past, too.

I never really understand why people make a distinction between rape and incest in this argument. Most people who are seeking abortion because of "incest" were actually raped...just happens to be by a family member. Cases of close family members in a consentual sexual relationships are pretty rare.

If this is true, why would it be any different if the woman is seeking an abortion because she was raped? That is, if the fetus really is a human life in your view, why does that change with the woman's situation?

Personally I think most people who make that argument say it because they don't want to look like a monster who would force a woman traumatized by rape to carry and bear the child that resulted. I have heard (or read on message boards; never heard it in real life) people say that there should be no exceptions except for life threatening complications. (Though I've actually seen arguments that even an ectopic pregnancy should not be terminated until the tube ruptures and there is no other option. Basically, the argument is that removing the pregnancy before it actually is an imminent threat to the mother's life is abortion, but the death of the fetus is an unintented consequence of removing a ruptured tube, so that's OK. I think that kind of thinking is barbaric...and I was reading recently that it is actually law in Costa Rica(? I can't find a link) that ectopic pregnancies be hospitalized until the tube ruptures, because abortion for any reason is illegal.)

That said, rape is not the only circumstance in which a pregnancy might cause serious psychological stress.

Because it's not really about saving a fetus. It's about controlling women and punishing them for being sexually active.

And there's that.

then why would it matter what the woman's reason is for wanting an abortion?

Personally, I don't think it's any of anyone's business why, except for the woman and whoever she chooses to confide in.

As for what most pro-lifers say, ie, "They can always adopt!"

Tell that to all the kids in foster care (though part of that problem is that most people want to adopt infants). Being approved to adopt (at least in the US) involves a lot of red tape. It's part of the reason so many people adopt overseas (though a lot of countries are tightening up their rules these days, too).

In fact, pregnancy and childbirth is just as risky as abortion; in some cases, more so; for example, in the case of ectopic pregnancy.

Pregnancy and childbirth is much riskier than a properly performed first trimester abortion.

My biggest concern is that if they ban outright abortion...what's next? Get rid of the morning after pill? Birth control? Where's the line?

There are people who would. Some (religious) groups are trying to push the idea that hormonal BC causes abortion.

I'm sorry. I just really feel that the time for a woman to decide she doesn't want to have a baby is before she has sex without taking the required steps to prevent getting pregnant.

And what of those couples who do take appropriate precautions and something goes wrong anyway? The woman deserves to be punished with an unwanted pregnancy? I'm sorry, but the argument "She made her choice when she chose to have sex" (and it's always her, not him) doesn't cut it.

And, if it's that big a deal for you to not have children, why not have him get a vasectomy, or you get your tubes tied?

I agree with you there...if you're sure you don't want kids, get a vasectomy. Tubes tied is more complicated, though. First, it's major surgery. Second, younger women can have a hard time finding a doctor to do the surgery if they don't have kids already, because "they might change their mind"...because women clearly can't be trusted to know their own minds.

It amazes me that a child is being compared to a disease or a life-changing injury.

Maybe not injury, but certainly life-changing. And not always in a good way.

But, to answer your question: When a woman gets an abortion, she's not just deciding what happens to her own body. She's making a decision on whether another life is allowed to continue. Why does she have that right?

Because that life is entirely dependent on her body. I won't go so far as to call it a parasite or compare it to enslaving the mother (both arguments I've seen), but going through a pregnancy and childbirth is a huge demand on a woman, both physically and mentally. It should be up to her if she is willing/able to go through that.

With so many couples out there who want kids and can't have them, why abort? Sure, it takes work to find a good adoption agency and good adoptive parents, but why shouldn't people like my friend who want kids but can't have their own, not have them?

I agree that giving a childless couple the chance to raise a much-wanted baby is a truly selfless act, but giving up a baby, even if you didn't want to have it in the first place, is not exactly an easy thing to do, and can have long-term emotional consequences for the birth-mother. Aside from that:

1. Just going through pregnancy and childbirth is a long-term, life-altering proposition.
2. Why does the person who doesn't want a child owe a childless couple 9-months of pregnancy discomfort, childbirth pain, and recovery time so they can have a kid? (And that's not even including the possibility of serious complications.)
3. Pregnancy and childbirth interfere with your ability to work, and some people just can't afford to take that kind of time off, and/or don't have health insurance to pay for it.

No one strolls into an abortion clinic and waltzes out unchanged.

I'd venture to say that no one (or very few, anyway) "strolls" into an abortion clinic without having already thought extensively about what she is doing. Yes, there should be some counseling, to make sure the woman is sure that it is what she wants to do, is not being forced or coerced (say, by a parent or husband who doesn't want her to have the baby), and that she knows what to expect from the procedure. But some people think "counseling" should include things like forcing her to have a sonogram so she can "see her baby" and other such emotionally manipulative stuff. Yes, she should be aware of all her options, but she should be getting facts, not being manipulated into doing something that is not what's best for her.

I think knowing that your child would be raised by a loving family that you could not provide would ease the pain of giving it up for adoption.

Perhaps, but the only person who can decide that is the pregnant woman.

It takes a special kind of person to adopt an older child and/or a special needs child. Those people are out there.

They're out there, but they are far fewer than the number of kids that need adopting.

Is it possible to be pro-life and anti-contraception at the same time? Like I asked earlier, virginity/purity/celibacy programs do not work...only 3% tend to hold out until their wedding day.

Yep. Read up on the far-religious-right in the US. There are people out there arguing that abortion = murder and contraception = abortion and so much as mentioning the subject in school sex-ed class will send all the kids running for the nearest no-tell motel.

There are pharmacists who cite "conscience clauses" and refuse to dispense birth control pills. There are doctors who refuse to prescribe them (which on the one hand, whatever, find another doctor, but on the other, some areas of the country have a scarcity of medical care options, especially in women's health specialties (most notably, obstetrics because of the high risk of lawsuits and the consequent high cost of malpractice insurance). Either way, I don't believe that pharmacists should be allowed to refuse to fill a valid prescription because of their religious beliefs. It's not the pharmacist's job to decide what medications you should take, unless they have a medically valid reason, in which case they should consult the doctor for an alternative (such as the drug interaction the pharmacy found when my mom filled two scrips for me a couple weeks ago - an antibiotic and a bronchodilator that don't get along).)

I guarantee you all these people consider themselves pro-life.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Second, younger women can have a hard time finding a doctor to do the surgery if they don't have kids already, because "they might change their mind"...because women clearly can't be trusted to know their own minds.

That is why I've given up asking my doctor. Since I have major trust issues, finding another doctor is out of the question. I know my own mind by now; since I was a kid, since I was a teen and since I was an young adult, I have not wanted children. And yet, a thirty year old guy could walze into a clinic and get the snip without being asked if he might change his mind. Jeez.

[fireheart17]

Another question...

Is it possible to be pro-life and an atheist? Just wondering as usually I've seen/heard pro-lifers that have specific ties to religious groups.

And another question: say that abortion does become illegal. Should we force the pro-lifers to go around to schools and tell young girls "The second you have sex, get rid of all dreams you had of becoming a doctor or a lawyer. You'll be a breeding machine from here on out for couples who can't have kids."

I'm sorry, but that does seem to be the attitude from those who fall into the pro-life and anti-contraception category.

[crashhelmet]

Another question...

Is it possible to be pro-life and an atheist? Just wondering as usually I've seen/heard pro-lifers that have specific ties to religious groups.

it would come down to what your definition of "life" is and what your own personal beliefs are in regards to it. I am a Christian, but my definition of "life" is not influenced by it. Read my sig. There are people in this world that I think don't deserve to be alive. I know, very unchristian of me, but I'd pay the price to make this world better.

And another question: say that abortion does become illegal. Should we force the pro-lifers to go around to schools and tell young girls "The second you have sex, get rid of all dreams you had of becoming a doctor or a lawyer. You'll be a breeding machine from here on out for couples who can't have kids."

I'm sorry, but that does seem to be the attitude from those who fall into the pro-life and anti-contraception category.

I've met too many women that have had successful careers AFTER having kids to be able to support that. It all comes down to their own personal motivation and the support/assistance they can get, whether it be financial (federal aide/student loans, etc) or someone to watch the kids while they goto work/school. It doesn't matter if they're single or not, the more support they have, the further they will get.

CH

[BookstoreEscapee]

Another question...

Is it possible to be pro-life and an atheist? Just wondering as usually I've seen/heard pro-lifers that have specific ties to religious groups.

I have seen people on message boards say they are atheist and pro-life. I think they usually are thinking of things like if there is a heartbeat/brain activity, that sort of thing. I'm sure the percentage of pro-life atheists is much lower than the percentage of pro-life religious people, though.

A quickie Google found me Atheist and Agnostic Pro-Life League and this Newsweek article (among others).