People with outdoor cats should have their pets taken away

[MadMike]

My cats used to go out all the time. Not because I wanted them out. I wasn't crazy about the idea, in fact. My ex was the one who started letting them out. I'd worry about them if they stayed away for a long period of time, but except for the one time one of them got locked in someone's garage by accident, there were never any problems. I eventually found that one, and he was OK, but he needed a batch when I got him home.

Like someone else said, at least one of mine had adopted a second family. She's come home smelling like she had been in front of a fireplace, which we did not have. I never put any of them out because I wanted them out, only when they wanted out. They'd meow out the door, and I'd let them out. They'd come back and meow or scratch at the door or a window, and I'd let them back in. One of mine used to love to come in the bedroom window.

This lasted until the township passed a law against letting your cats out. I was actually somewhat relieved, as I didn't have to worry about anything happening to them anymore, but the cats were not happy. They'd stand there meowing at the door, unable to understand why I wasn't letting them out.

Oh and for the record, all of my cats were fixed.

[HYHYBT]

My cats have their own door, and come and go as they please. They are vaccinated and fixed; no worry about them spraying, catching feline leukemia, or having kittens. I've never seen either of them cross the street, or even go near it unless following me; mostly they lie around the driveway or go into the woods "next door", bothering nobody either way. Both are in perfect health; my previous cat did, it's true, die at the age of six but that was cancer, and the one before was 17 or 18 (and also cancer) so I doubt the lifestyle is unhealthy in this location. It's true that if I shut them in the house I wouldn't, for example, have found a wounded bat in my shoe the other day, but they wouldn't like it and, though I know they'd probably hide instead of leaving anyway, I couldn't stand the thought of their being locked in when i'm not there in case of fire.

And, while I'm not by any means a violent man, well, harming or removing my cats would be the surest way of changing that.

[elsporko]

Are you sure you're firing at the right target, tho?

http://www.messybeast.com/ukferal.htm

I'll match your article written by some random person on a pro cat website and raise you one written by a government agency that deals with animals from the NPR website.

http://news.minnesota.publicradio.or...ye_cathunting/

According to researchers at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, feral cats prey heavily on wildlife. They eat a lot of birds -- about eight million every year.

The article was about a proposed law to allow hunting of feral cats in Minnesota because they are such a nuisance.

He's got the kind of temperement where he can't stand to be kept inside all the time- he howls to get out, and that cat has lungs! So for his happiness and ours

The defining argument for outdoor cats "But taking care of my cat properly is really hard. Its easier if we just let him do whatever and not care about the consequences for the cat or neighbors."

Let's do the cats are kids trick. If a kid howled until you did something for him would that be okay?

And I'm also with lace about the cat hatred thing- it seems that a lot of people who hate cats have controlling temperements in general, and don't take kindly to anything which doesn't slavishly follow orders.

I've got a cat and rabbits, so thats not me. I don't take kindly to people who don't take proper care of their pets and are inconsiderate.

I doubt the lifestyle is unhealthy in this location. It's true that if I shut them in the house I wouldn't, for example, have found a wounded bat in my shoe the other day

http://www.cdc.gov/Rabies/bats.html

Most of the recent human rabies cases in the United States have been caused by rabies virus from bats.

Lots of bats have rabies, your cats could have been exposed while attacking the bat.

[protege]

We don't get many bats out in the 'burbs But, when the kitty was still at the farm, bats were constant--the attic alone had *hundreds*

But, one cat that was never allowed outside, was Snow. I wasn't about to put my deaf cat in danger! She was always inside, and sometimes wasn't too happy about it--she wanted to chase the birds outside Still had to be careful though--she'd been in the garage once, and tended to hide under the car.

[Lace Neil Singer]

A feral cat is not a pet cat, just so you know. Feral cats are cats that are living wild without homes; the main problem is with people feeding them. Pet cats that go outside don't cause damage as a general rule, any more than foxes, crows, raccoons etc do and a lot less. Are you going to extend your cat campaign to include those, too? Especially if a fox gets into your garden and kills your rabbit.

[elsporko]

I think any pet should be kept under control whether it be a cat, fox raccoon or elephant.

The reason we have feral cats is because cats are let out of the home and breed or they are let out of the home and just never come back, not to mention the fact that the only differance between feral cats and outdoor cats sometimes come home. When they are gone they might as well be feral cats.

You say pet cats don't cause damage but how do you know? You don't watch your cats after letting them out, all you do is throw them out the door and do something easier and more entertaining then taking care of your pet.

[Cats]

Lots of bats have rabies, your cats could have been exposed while attacking the bat.

You do realize there exists a vaccine for that which is given as standard during the yearly checkup by the vet, right?


And birds have wings, cats don't. We have birds everywhere, and they all are well aware of predators in the area, and will fly away when danger may come. Cats tend to only go after things they may hunt with some degree of success. Rodents are in 1,000x more danger than birds are (and are far more likely to carry disease).




I live on a dead end street on top of a hill, in an area that easily fits the stereotypical white picket fence neighborhood. Several people have cats, most of them outdoor. Most of them don't have ID tags, but we all know which cat belongs to what family, and they tend not to venture more than a house or two away from home, and no one has seen or heard of any evidence of the local cats destroying property (and I've lived here for 20 years). All of them are fixed before they are even allowed to step one foot outside.

One of my cats doesn't care for the outside much, while the other LOVES it. One day, yes, she did get hurt (it happens, humans get hurt too), and had to be quarentined inside for a month. Lasted 2 weeks (vet OK'd it since she was healing okay), since she loves it outdoors so much it was TORTURE to have her cooped up. She gets played with inside as well, but she had other needs we cannot satisfy, namely the need for fresh air and to roam freely. She is a CAT, not a furry little human. By nature, she is a territorial predator, not a trained house puppet. My other cat may be a human in a cat's body (she seriously acts like it), but most cats aren't like that. A responsible pet owner takes care of their cat's physical AND mental/emotional needs (while taking any risks into consideration). If my cat is a healthier happier kitty because she can roam outside, then so be it. Yes, there are occasionally coyotes in summer and the raccoons. But you know what? They are not allowed out before morning twilight, and are in by evening twilight to minimize that risk.


Now if the area around isn't safe (such as in a heavy traffic area), yes I do agree the cat should not be a free outdoors cat. My parents once had a cat that they couldn't let out in the open, but they had a fenced in yard and put the cat on a run when it went outside. Handy compromise.


I can understand the argument against cats being outdoors, but the second someone says my cats should be taken away for that reason alone, is, IMO, crossing a line into blind ignorance.

[elsporko]

And birds have wings, cats don't. We have birds everywhere, and they all are well aware of predators in the area, and will fly away when danger may come.

I think I'll have to go with the Minnesota DNR on this one who reports over 8 million birds being killed by cats in that state, which is pretty good evidence that cats catch birds. I don't know if maybe it was a fluke, one paticularly sneaky cat got 8 million birds by itself while they were all asleep or what, but thats the numbers.

If my cat is a healthier happier kitty because she can roam outside, then so be it

Healthier in the sense that being exposed to disease, physical danger, and having a shorter life expectancy is shorter. Its almost as if...

since she loves it outdoors so much it was TORTURE to have her cooped up

ah, the part where letting the cat out is easier then keeping it in. I wonder why this keeps coming up as an argument for letting cats come outside. Imagine using it while trying to get out of a parking ticket, "No officer I'm not handicap, but parking in the handicap stop is easier."



And I'm still waiting for somebody to give a decent argument as to why your wants as a cat owner trumps the rights of property owners who don't want cats on their property? Would you be fine if somebody let a dog run loose around your house or parked a car on your grass? Why does having a cat make you immune to respecting other people's property?

[Cats]

ah, the part where letting the cat out is easier then keeping it in. I wonder why this keeps coming up as an argument for letting cats come outside. Imagine using it while trying to get out of a parking ticket, "No officer I'm not handicap, but parking in the handicap stop is easier."

I fail to see how letter her out is "easier". She's in an out constantly, meaning we as a family have to communicate and keep tabs on her wherabouts (she's more high maintenance than my other cat, who DOESN'T go out by choice). Yes, it is far "easier" to have to keep track of how long she has been outside, check on her frequently, call her in to eat or if it starts to rain or it's getting dark. Playing inside only does so much for her. She has plenty of toys and is played with everyday. Sometimes when she goes out, it's only to pee. Yes we have a litter box, but she doesn't like to use it. Besides, a litter box itself holds dangers too (have you ever read the warnings about pregnant women and litter boxes?)

You have never met this cat, its very easy to see when she's happy and playful, and when she's upset. If you watch their behavior, you'll find out pets have some emotions in common with humans. Do you let a crying child sit there, or do you find out what's wrong first and try to fix the problem? She does out because she likes the fresh air and open space that you can't get from a house. She has gotten hurt maybe once every 2 years, which is far less often than I have gotten sick or hurt, and I'm not even outside nearly as often as she is. You can't spend your whole life inside because of a small risk. The outdoors is not a horrible place for every creature out there. There is danger out there yes, just as there is danger inside. The creatures on this planet need to LIVE, not just spend it in fear of something that MIGHT happen. You do what you can to minimize those risks, but no one is completely invulnerable. It should also be worth noting, than one of my neighbors has had more than one outdoor cat live to the age of 18+. The local cats are all fixed, vaccinated, have tick/flea repellant, checked frequently, and are not allowed outside before dawn or after dusk. And when they do get hurt, usually it's from a squabble with one of the other pet cats (which is not much worse than a child falling down and scraping their knees and elbows. Perhaps were should get rid of all the pavement and bicycles too, as well as shoelaces. You never know when you might trip on them and fall and hurt yourself on accident).



I tried to look up the DNR thing, and sorry, but I ain't buying what they say. I don't think my cat kills enough in a YEAR (and she goes out everyday when there is good weather) to meet some of the average stats they say, and 99.9% of what she kills isn't even birds (and before you say she's a danger to wildlife, she is less of a danger to small birds and rodents than the nearby red tail hawk pair or the local owls are).



And did you miss the part where I mentioned NEVER, in 20 years, have ANY of the local neighbors complained about cats on their property (and it's been the same people living there for 20-30 years)? You'd think by now if someone had a problem, they would say something. Occasionally, we have had one of the neighbor's dogs get loose. You know what we do? We help them find the dog, and in one case, my parents cared for one all day when the owner was at work. No one complains, because we know it can happen. As responsible pet owners, there is a silent understanding that we help another pet owner in need. People can't park on my lawn because they don't have permission. BUT THE CATS DO HAVE PERMISSION TO CROSS A NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY. Let me make that clear again: THE NEIGHBORS DO NOT MIND IN THE SLIGHTEST IF A CAT OF WHOM THEY KNOW THE OWNER, SITS IN THEIR YARD. It's not trespassing if permission is granted. If someone complained, then yes, of course we would take that into consideration when letting a cat out. But we're not going to spend time fixing a problem that doesn't exist for us. Besides, do I have the right to shoot down the blue jays who nest in my spruce tree because are on my property and poop on the cars? Or the white tailed deer who eat our plants? They cause a lot more damage than the cats do. Let's shoo them away as well.




If all the vets within a 10 mile radius as well as animal control don't have an issue with cats being outside so long as they are no complaints (which there aren't in my area) and the cats are otherwise in good health (which they are), and the neighbors don't mind (which they don't) the local wildlife isn't threatened (see my previous line about how my cats pale in comparasin to other local predators), then tell me, what's the problem?




There are more laws about cleaning up after your dog than there are against cats being outside, provided they are properly vaccinated and tagged in some cases.

[elsporko]

Do you let a crying child sit there, or do you find out what's wrong first and try to fix the problem?

Dad: What's wrong son?

Child: I want to drive the car

Dad: But you're only six

Child: If I don't get my way then I will cry

Dad: Well, you might not get hurt and I definitely can't deal with you crying, so here are the keys. To make it safe I'm not going to watch you, this way I can deny that you do anything wrong. Of course you didn't run over the neighbors fence, after all, I didn't see it while I wasn't watching you.

This government agency says six year olds shouldn't drive. I don't believe them. After all its only their job, they certainly don't know as much as me. After all I'm the one not paying attention to my kid.

[HYHYBT]

According to researchers at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, feral cats prey heavily on wildlife. They eat a lot of birds -- about eight million every year.

FERAL cats. As in, cats that do not have a food dish, among other differences. Mine mostly bring in lizards, the kind that are about six inches long, and they don't even eat those; they'd probably even live if they weren't trapped in the house.

Yes, bats do often have rabies. Especially those that a cat is able to catch. That, among other reasons, is why, as I said in that very same post, I keep them vaccinated against everything the vet has a shot for. I *was* a bit worried about it biting *me,* though. But it didn't, and if it had I'd rather take the shots myself than make my cats stay indoors all the time. By the way, why do you equate "I let the cat out because he likes it" with "I let the cat out because it's easier?" It would be much easier on me to keep them in; closing the hole in the wall would have been simpler than replacing the worn-out cat door, I wouldn't have to deal with the dead lizards and the occasional mouse or mole anymore, and I wouldn't have to treat them for fleas, etc. every month. But they love the outdoors, even when it's raining, so I won't take that away from them without good cause. Would *you* like to be shut up in the house for the rest of your life?

The reason we have feral cats is because cats are let out of the home and breed or they are let out of the home and just never come back, not to mention the fact that the only differance between feral cats and outdoor cats sometimes come home. When they are gone they might as well be feral cats.

My cats are fixed: regardless of where they spend their time, they will not breed at all short of a rather pointless miracle. And again, a large difference in how they behave when they're outside is that they not only have a food dish in the house, but prefer Cat Chow to all other foods.

And I'm still waiting for somebody to give a decent argument as to why your wants as a cat owner trumps the rights of property owners who don't want cats on their property? Would you be fine if somebody let a dog run loose around your house or parked a car on your grass? Why does having a cat make you immune to respecting other people's property?

Multiple answers to this one. First, cats are simply not like dogs. They are very unlikely to bite you, chew your laundry, leave mess in your yard (they bury it), harm your outdoor pets, if any, etc. Nor are they like cars, which get in the way, leave tracks in the yard, and, if left long enough, kill the grass. So not nearly as many people object to them as object to loose dogs. If my neighbor were to complain about my cats, then I'd probably start keeping them in. But since the cats don't cross the street or the creek, there's only one relevant neighbor, and he *likes* cats. So why should you or anybody else tell me I can't let them go where they're welcome?

[HYHYBT]

Sorry, that reminded me of a story (which isn't terribly on-point and I'll probably mess up anyway, but oh well.) About ten years ago, yet another in a long string of short-term neighbors moved into the house next to Mom's. And proceeded to complain about her cats being on his property. Grouchy fellow in many ways, and I'm glad never to have met him. Anyway, Mom started keeping her cats in the house. One day she was outside, and he came over. Conversation proceeded roughly like this:

Grouch: "Your cat's been in my yard again."
Mom: "No he hasn't. They've been inside for weeks."
G: "No he's not, he's right there!"
M: "That's not my cat."
G: "Yes he is! He's on your porch!"
M: "Yes, but he's still not my cat. I don't know whose he is."

Etc., etc. Guy never did get the concept that anyone could possibly *not* object to someone else's cat sitting harmlessly on their property.

[tabbyblack13]

I have both indoor and feral cats here. I admit I have tried my best to neuter and spay as many as I can but I am only one person with limited resources. I honestly wish that there were no cats outside.

That said I live in a rural area with a lot of wildlife here including but not limited to coyotes, cougars, and bobcats. Many feral and outdoor cats lose there life to these predators so if the cats eat a few birds I don't mind. I have bird feeders on my property and that also attracts rodents. Rodents will attract rattle snakes to my yard. I do not want rattle snakes in my yard and I will do what ever it takes to discourage them from entering it.

Besides have you ever watched cats hunt? They don't always get there pray. I have acctually witnessed one of the feral cats miss a bird and go face first in to a metal bird feeder. I have also witnessed birds attack cats too. There are also neighbors here that want the feral cats around to take care of the morning doves here. But when a cat is the size of a morning dove and the doves are not that dumb then that is really funny. I don't think a cat has acctually gotten one of the dove yet.

I have also turned in 4 abandoned kittens that were left at my house to the human society too. The problem I have here is that no one seems to care about animals here except for a few people.

[Fashion Lad!]

When I was growing up in a smaller neighborhood we had 3 cats. Those 3 cats would be let out in the morning because they wanted out and would come back before it got dark. Not once did one of those cats spend the night outside because they always came back before sunset. They all looked both ways before crossing the road. Princess (our all white cat) kept the neighborhood free from rats and moles, Mikki and Max were great on bats. They lived to be 17, 16 and 17 respectively. Yes, they caught wildlife, but hell, what carnivore in nature hasn't?

[fireheart17]

I have two cats: both indoor, however we do let them out while they're supervised. Generally, as long as they stay within the confines of the fence, they aren't going to be brought in. If they catch birds, we bring them in. We don't stop them-that's normal animal behaviour, tamed or not. Humans hunt, cats hunt, dogs hunt...

But here's something to think about: most RESPONSIBLE pet owners tend to desex their cats. Unlike a dog, a cat doesn't need its dignity nearly as much. Desexing tends to remove their tendency to roam. What about feral cats? They don't have homes.

Any more points that people would like to make? Maybe we should remove the right for people to have pets altogether, if it's said that outdoor pet owners are stupid and irresponsible.