9 students charged with bullying that lead to a suicide

[Lace Neil Singer]

When I underwent serious bullying, there was no reason to go to the teachers for help. They saw it and let it go on so they weren't the ones I complained to. I complained to the VP, the principal, the superintendent. Thank God our superintendent was awesome or else nothing would have been done. And thanks to my guidance councilor for not taking no for an answer. When it's that bad, it's not the teachers that are receiving these complaints.

Agreed. When I was being bullied, my parents were constantly telling the Headmaster; but nothing was done. In fact, he and his deputy took zero notice of what was happening til the day I started fighting back physically. They then labeled me a troublemaker and punished me for fighting. As for the bullies, they got off scot free, pretty much. They got detentions, sure, but since when were detentions a deterrant against bullying?

But I don't think that these bullies should be charged with anything other than assault charges. Anything else would not be just punishment for crimes committed, but revenge. Also, as I said before, the only person responsible for a suicide is the person who commits suicide. It's dangerous to deny personal responsibility; isn't that what a lot of us complain about on CS.com, when an SC tries to deny that they're responsible and instead try to blame someone else for what they did? Different scenario, but still the same in some ways. And like I said, I take responsibility for my self harm; I wouldn't have expected that the girls who bullied me got charged for making me cut myself, cuz I was the one who chose to do it.

[Ree]

If a bully isn't getting in trouble then there must not be any evidence of the bullying.

What a load of shit. In my opinion, bullied kids are easy to spot.

Yeah, bullies are sneaky little shits who know how to throw the punches when nobody's looking, but a kid who is being verbally and even physically beaten down on a daily basis stands out pretty good.

If they claim they are being bullied, I would be inclined to believe it.

I have to wonder why there are so many similar stories about kids being bullied and having nothing done to help them, but when they finally snap and hit back, they are the ones getting caught and punished.

I see it all the time on forums and message boards, and when listening to coworkers and acquaintances talk about their own or their child or other family member or friend's situation.

All these kids being bullied and not a shred of evidence anywhere?

Come on...give me a break.

Many kids don't speak up because it only makes things worse for them. On top of the bullying, they now get labelled as a whiner or crybaby, and a rat.

The problem with bullying is that it's hard to deal with verbal assaults.
Many times, the kid gets picked on to the point that they will lash out physically, and then the school has a policy about that type of thing, so the wrong person ends up being punished.

My coworker's stepson was bullied.
He died of an overdose 2 years ago.
After he died, whenever anyone talked about him, they all said, "That poor kid was picked on all through school."

I don't know how many teens I talked to who all said, "I felt so sorry for that kid. He had such a shitty life."

WTF???

You guys all knew and nobody stepped up to help him and stop the bullying?

My friend and his wife were at the school all the time trying to get something done, but the school just dragged its feet until it was too late.
They seriously considered a lawsuit against the school board, but I'm not sure what happened there.

Even the media initially jumped on the story, but after the first few cautionary articles about bullying in the schools, they seemed to lose interest.

Last fall, there was another suicide by a bullied kid, and my friend went back to the newspaper, but nothing came of it.

So, don't tell me about a lack of evidence. Just because there aren't bruises and nobody sees a verbal punch, that doesn't mean there is no physical evidence that something's going on.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I don't know how many teens I talked to who all said, "I felt so sorry for that kid. He had such a shitty life."

WTF???

You guys all knew and nobody stepped up to help him and stop the bullying?

They don't. It sucks, but it's what happens. At my school, the kids who were doing the bullying were the popular clique; the prettiest girl in school and her little acolytes. Since standing up for the freak that she was bullying would have made anyone else a target, most of the kids either ignored what was going on or laughed sycophantically. This girl had the power to make people's lives extremely unpleasant, plus they'd be left out of all the parties etc that went on... and there aren't many teens who are brave enough to go against that kind of power. Just two girls were; and they were my friends and stuck up for me when they could, but there wasn't much they could do. In any case, it was the school's responsibility to do something about the bullying, and they didn't.

[elsporko]

What a load of shit. In my opinion, bullied kids are easy to spot.

Yeah, bullies are sneaky little shits who know how to throw the punches when nobody's looking, but a kid who is being verbally and even physically beaten down on a daily basis stands out pretty good.

If they claim they are being bullied, I would be inclined to believe it.

True but if the only evidence is what the bullied kid says then what can be done? Should I be able to call the police and tell them you robbed me and they arrest you even if there is no other evidence? You can't just punish a kid based on what some other kid says.

I have to wonder why there are so many similar stories about kids being bullied and having nothing done to help them, but when they finally snap and hit back, they are the ones getting caught and punished.

I see it all the time on forums and message boards, and when listening to coworkers and acquaintances talk about their own or their child or other family member or friend's situation.

All these kids being bullied and not a shred of evidence anywhere?

Come on...give me a break.

Because most of these kids, especially on the internet, who claim to be victims of large scale bullying are not well socialized and grew up reading books and watching shows about the nerd who gets bullied, bests the bullies, and then becomes the hero. They want to be that character and they go out looking for bullying, blowing anything that actually does happen to them out of proportion. A couple of comments by a classmate all of a sudden becomes a full out bullying session to these kids, even though the bully barely acknowledges the kid. You see it all the time when you work with young people.

[Fryk]

Of course there's evidence for it. But, unfortunately, is there evidence that points to exactly who did it? Not "I KNOW this kid MUST be responsible" but actual, tangible evidence?

This is the reason why bullying has always been such a big problem (well, a big reason, anyway). These jackass kids are sneaky. They learn through trial and error, and through watching other bullies before them, when to act so that there's no concrete proof that they were the ones who did it. Oh, sure, the teacher may know something happened, but if they act on their (sometimes dead on) instincts without any proof, the bullies' parents are all over them. If they ARE caught saying something or throwing something, all the school can do is bust them for that speific incident, until it happens multiple times.

When the poor soul who fights back is caught, the administration has to act, because the bullies' parents, again, would be all over the school if they didn't. Although, if I were a teacher and had a good hunch what was going on, I'd probably pretend not to see it when the kid faught back.

The only way I can see the situation improving is to monitor the students more, so you CAN see what the bullies are doing. Unfortuantely, given how few resources most schools have, I don't see how this would be possible.

[smileyeagle1021]

True but if the only evidence is what the bullied kid says then what can be done? Should I be able to call the police and tell them you robbed me and they arrest you even if there is no other evidence? You can't just punish a kid based on what some other kid says.

Oh yes, because a kid is going to risk making a false claim of bullying when even making a legit claim will make it worse for them.
Here's a proposal, since the school can't do anything about it (even though every teacher knows damned well which kids are the bullies), make it policy that anyone who beats the shit out of a bully gets the same punishment bullies get... not a fucking thing... sounds like justice to me.
I've had teachers who so much as admitted that they went home and prayed that some day a kid would beat the shit out of one of the bullies so it would finally be done and prayed they would have the knowledge to find a way out of punishing the kids.

[elsporko]

I've seen kids make false claims against each other. It happens when one knows the other will get punished without much of an investigation.

The subject of fights has come up before with the poor victim apparently getting walloped for several hours but intervention only comes when he fights back. It sucks but teachers can only punish what they see. Often the person who punches back does get in trouble. Sucks, but thats life. Works the same way with police. They punish the person they see committing a crime

[Plaidman]

True but if the only evidence is what the bullied kid says then what can be done? Should I be able to call the police and tell them you robbed me and they arrest you even if there is no other evidence? You can't just punish a kid based on what some other kid says.


Because most of these kids, especially on the internet, who claim to be victims of large scale bullying are not well socialized and grew up reading books and watching shows about the nerd who gets bullied, bests the bullies, and then becomes the hero. They want to be that character and they go out looking for bullying, blowing anything that actually does happen to them out of proportion. A couple of comments by a classmate all of a sudden becomes a full out bullying session to these kids, even though the bully barely acknowledges the kid. You see it all the time when you work with young people.

It happened to me. Full on beating in the class. I had blood dripping. Black eyes. I felt that I broke a rib. My face turned black and blue. People cheered. People laughed. Did teacher do anything?
Teacher: "Oh, I didn't see it. My back was turned while I was writing, and I didn't hear the cheers".That is what she said to the principal. Once my mom saw my face she stormed right back in.

A few kids did point out the bully of who it was.

What was his punishment? "Oh that was bad. You get a day"

Me? I was transfered out of the class. Rather then get rid of the bully, who fucking BEAT me into the ground, I'm the one that got transfered. I'm thankful for mom who went out of her way to find a much better alterinate school. While it was hell at times there, it wasn't nearly as bad at the old school.


Then High School. Oh my god high school. When a bully can stuff you in lockers. Can flat out walk to your desk, punch you in the face, threaten to kill you and piss on your corpse, then rape your mother at the funeral, in full blown front of everyone while the teacher laughs at that, and the bully doesn't even get a detention?

Is it any wonder I brought a gun to that school and shot at him? It was toy gun, but it did make him cry and dive behind his girlfriend.

Who got expelled for that? Even though I've told teacher, told vice principal, told principal, told mom who also talked to principals, they all said the same thing. "We will deal with it".

Yeah. Their way of dealing it was telling him to stop, which made him hit me even more, along with his buddies.

Once I did that toygun?

BOOM:
"We feel your a problem child. You cannot deal with your peers properly, and you are a danger. You are not allowed on any Portland Public School proptery for one year. You are not allowed to reenter this school"

that was my punishment, because I finally stood up to the bastard. I sure as hell couldn't hurt him psychially. Not even with a bat. He was far to big and strong.

I only wish it was a real gun and shot him in the leg so he'll always remember me.

[Hobbs]

Your last sentence, Plaidman, is enough of a reason for you to have gotten in trouble.

[Rageaholic]

Oh yes, because a kid is going to risk making a false claim of bullying when even making a legit claim will make it worse for them.
Here's a proposal, since the school can't do anything about it (even though every teacher knows damned well which kids are the bullies), make it policy that anyone who beats the shit out of a bully gets the same punishment bullies get... not a fucking thing... sounds like justice to me.

What you said. Schools love to deny students rights and control everything. They want to have the final say in everything, but when it comes down to it, the students could defend themselves better than the teachers ever do. Yet when they do, the teachers punish the victim. They won't do anything, but they won't allow the student to fight back either? What they are doing is taking the bullies side by saying "No fighting!" but only enforcing it when the victim fights back.

That's all I have to say on this issue.

[Greenday]

Your last sentence, Plaidman, is enough of a reason for you to have gotten in trouble.

Whether Plaidman wishes it was a real gun or not doesn't change the fact Plaidman would not have gone that far. Nor does it change the fact that there is plenty of evidence, teachers just ignore it so they don't have to report it.

[Hobbs]

He escalated to a threat on life. Beating someone up is bodily harm, but not life-threatening.

[Greenday]

He escalated to a threat on life. Beating someone up is bodily harm, but not life-threatening.

Toy guns are threats on life? I'm pretty sure beating someone up is more life-threatening than being shot with a toy gun.

[Plaidman]

He escalated to a threat on life. Beating someone up is bodily harm, but not life-threatening.

I did not threaten his life. I said I wish it was a real gun to shoot his LEG.

And besides, he did threaten my life too. In class. In front of teacher. Who laughed. So no. He deserved it.

Now, he likely has a family, kids, good job. Own place. Karma doesnt exist.

[Hobbs]

You can die from a GSW to the leg, ya know.

Yes he probably does. And children who wouldn't likely have a father if you had killed him.