School Uniforms and Inappropriate Elementary School Attire

[MaggieTheCat]

However, the elementary and junior high schools that I attended in northern Arizona were a little more specific with dress codes.........guys couldn't have long hair, hats weren't allowed in the classroom, and girls were almost not allowed to wear pants. (oh, and I believe male teachers were required to be clean-shaven)

I never had school uniforms or even a strict dress code when I was in school, but the more I read and hear about them, the more I think they're a good idea. However, I have issues with any school that doesn't allow guys to have long hair. Probably because my husband has long hair (and has since he was in middle school) and I just don't see why it's an issue. I know once a few months back there was a thread on here about a boy who was forced to cut his hair for school, and the school's policy was that they encourage children to groom themselves properly so they'll be decent and civil members of society when they grow up, or some BS nonsense like that. As if all boys who have long hair are uncultured barbarians, or punks who do drugs and get into trouble all the time. It just really pisses me off. Besides, it's completely biased...does the same school require all girls to have long hair and prohibit girls from having "boy" haircuts?

I also don't think girls should be required to wear skirts/dresses. I like skirts now, but I never did when I was in school and I would have HATED wearing one as part of a uniform. And as someone else already pointed out, they're not practical all the time. What do the girls do for gym class? Are they allowed to change (and if so, into what?) or are they expected to run around playing dodgeball in a skirt?

[BookstoreEscapee]

I...do not even know where to start...

[telecom_goddess]

I just don't get the requirements of "clean shaven" "no long hair on boys"...really what the hell difference does it make?? Or piercings for that matter.

As for dressing up...I hate that with a passion. Dressy clothes are more uncomfortable and I like to be comfy . Same with shoes...dressy shoes hurt and athletic shoes don't so that's what I go with.

[lordlundar]

I...do not even know where to start...

Might I suggest a flamethrower for the parents that allow this?

[Rageaholic]

Damn, I thought I was the only one! Why is it that "nice" clothes, are the most uncomfortable things ever? Seriously, I hate getting dressed up. Mainly because I went to a Catholic grade school, and had to wear nice clothes, including ties on Mondays, for 8 years. Did I mention that button-down shirts are uncomfy when you have a tie on?

As such, I don't get dressed up very often. For work, I usually wear polo shirts and khakis. I'm not about to wear a fucking suit when crawling around on the floor routing network cables. Nor can I tolerate frying in a hot office with a suit on. Screw that.

I hate dressing up, fucking hate it. Not only is it uncomfortable, but it makes me look like a damn dork. It's why I hate job interviews and other social functions like weddings that you have to dress up for.

My opinion on uniforms, it's just another stupid rule schools make, with their line of reasoning most likely something along the lines of "Well in the REAL WORLD, you have to dress up, so you might as well get used to it now". Just another way to get kids to comform.

[KellyHabersham]

I just don't get the requirements of "clean shaven" "no long hair on boys"...really what the hell difference does it make?? Or piercings for that matter.

I think much of that may/may not have had to do with the fact that this was in a small town, and the vast majority of people (this including school officials) were members of the LDS church. Or perhaps it was just that, for whatever reason, the dress code hadn't been updated in a long time.

[Amanita]

Count me in as another who says "WTF?" to rules against long hair on men. I love long hair on guys, and think that as long as it's kept reasonably neat, then what's the big deal?

I understand trying to stop the worst of inappropriate clothes (that elementary thread over at CS), but do we really need to strip children of their individuality to do that?

Count me in also as another who generally doesn't like to dress up. I love fancy goth and Pagan gear, but all too often, that stuff is "not acceptable". It sucks, it really does. At the same time, at least us ladies have more options- for guys it's usually a suit or nothing.
After all, how many restaurants specify "jacket and tie for men"? What about a guy who shows up in ethnic dress clothes (that don't include a western suit and tie)? Would he be allowed in because it's in keeping with the spirit of the rule, ie- dressed up? Or would he be kept out for not strictly following the letter?

[Amanita]

I would give a pass to the fairy costume (unless the wings were a safety hazard)- it's unusual, but not massively inappropriate or offensive like the other outfits were.

A child with a real tattoo? Wearing a shirt with "Fuck me" on it? Stripper wear on a third grader?
Ewww!

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Might I suggest a flamethrower for the parents that allow this?

No, flamethrowers only have enough fuel to eliminate a few targets grouped together in a confined space. I would recommend instead an AA-12 (Automatic Assault 12) shotgun loaded with 'safety slugs' which cause massive tissue damage without the chance of over-penetrating or ricocheting

[HYHYBT]

I didn't realize letting your child get a tattoo was actually abusive.

[Amanita]

I think it's because of the permenant nature of the tattoo- it's not like a piercing, where the kid can take it out later if they decide they don't want to keep it. Unless you're willing to pay $$$ for tattoo removal (which doesn't always work so well), you're stuck with it.

[Greenday]

I didn't realize letting your child get a tattoo was actually abusive.

Tattooing a 9-10 year old? How are real tattoos at all appropriate for someone that young?

[Jester]

I was responding to this thread in CS.com and suddenly it wasn't there anymore, probably because of a lot of the debates and discussions that sprang up in it. Since I spent some time and thought on my post, I saw no reason for it to go to waste, so I am posting it here, including all the comments from others that I quoted, even if those comments are not present in this incarnation of the thread.

I'm not so bad boy on the boys having ear pierced. I had my left ear pierced in the third grade.

I have no more issue with boys having their ears pierced than girls. It's less of a double standard than it used to be, but it still is a double standard. I look at it this way...if the kid (of whatever gender) wants their ear or ears pierced, and the parents are fine with it, I have no problem with it either. I am not really fond of the parents who have their girl baby's ears pierced, and I am sure some people will disagree with me here (hell, my best friend did that to both of her daughters), but in my mind, that is something that one should decide for themselves, boy or girl. Beyond that, though, I could care less.

As for the names: I'm all for parents having some originality, but there's a point where you're setting your kid up for ridicule. And giving your kids names that are more appropriate as screen names definitely fits that. La-a? Really? DD I can at least accept, but putting #s and symbols is just wrong.

Sure, they're setting their kids up for ridicule. So are parents that give their kids names like Bertha, Melvin, and Dorcus. How is that any different than the "creative" names being discussed? You say that putting punctuation and symbols in names is "just wrong," but yet we as a society accept periods (J.T.) and apostrophes (O'Dell) in names. Why not other punctuation marks?

What was "just wrong" once is often acceptable later on.

What is "just wrong" for us may be perfect acceptable for other people. I have personal experience with this part: I despise my middle name, and pretty much ignore it, and don't tell people what it is. I use only my first and last name. Whereas my stepfather goes by his middle name, and and always has. And hates his first name. He admits to it more than I admit to my middle name, though, as he signs everything as "F. Middle Last."

So yeah, I think it was silly when those people a few years ago named their child "ESPN." But there are loads of people who think *I* am silly, for a whole number of reasons. So in the end, who am I to judge such things?

Almost makes me wish we were like some other countries that must approve names.

Glad you put in that first word. Because personally, I would never want to live in a place that controls our creativity, especially on something as basic as naming our children.

Yeah, the problem with putting symbols in your name is that there are so many different ways to pronounce them. Ladasha could be lahyphena. And .e could be periode. And an4ney could be anquatroney. And who does that!

And there are tons of ways to pronounce "acceptable" names. I have met Andreas who demand that their name is "AND-ree-uh," while others insist they are "OND-ree-uh," and still others that say they are "on-DRAY-uh." How is that different?

And then there are the names that look and sound completely different. My favorite of these is the head coach of the Duke University basketball team, Mike Krzyzewski, which is pronounced "shuh-SHEF-skee." Now, I ask you, how do you get THAT pronunciation out of THOSE letters? Yes, I know, I know, it's a foreign name. So what? Doesn't change the fact that if you just looked at it, you could (and probably would) pronounce it completely differently. Myself, if I didn't know how to pronounce it, I would probably take a stab at "kriz-uh-ZOO-skee." And I am usually pretty good at pronouncing odd names!

There are times I am happy to have such a boring, average name.

Oh, and there are these twins, one is named moonbeam and one is starshine.

So? I have met people named Winter and Meadow and Autumn and Sunshine and Destiny and Charity and Faith and Willow and Summer and on and on. I know, some of those names are "acceptable." But why should Summer be more acceptable than Winter? Why should Rose be more acceptable than Meadow? Sunshine more than Moonbeam? Hell, I knew one girl who hated her name, which was Callista. Her parents got her name out of the Bible..."Callista" was Latin for "chalice." As she told it, "I was named for a freakin' CUP!" Another girl I knew from South America was named Soledad, which I think is a beautiful name. (As I did Callista, incidentally.) She hated it. Why? "It means solitude. How depressing."

There are times I am bummed to have such a boring, average name.

Tattooing a 9-10 year old? How are real tattoos at all appropriate for someone that young?

In a lot of cultures, that would be very appropriate. It is not considered normal in ours at this time, but it wasn't that long enough that a 10 year old laboring in a coal mine was totally acceptable. What is and what is not acceptable changes over time, usually by people doing things that are initially outside the accepted norms of that society.

Mind you, I am not saying I personally approve of this. I am merely pointing out that such a thing is not universally unacceptable or even that odd.

[BookstoreEscapee]

I gotta agree with Jester on the ear piercing. Why is it OK for a little girl (hell, some people do it on infants) to get their ears pierced, but not a boy, if he really wants it? It's not like it's some irreversible procedure. You can always take the earrings out and in most cases you can't tell there's a hole there unless you look closely. And in some cases the holes close up anyway. Personally, I wouldn't have my baby's ears pierced; I would wait until she was old enough to ask to have it done (I was 11 when I had mine done, and 12 when I got a second set of holes, which have since closed up. I hardly ever wear earrings these days).

I have mixed feelings on the tattoo on a 10-year-old. I'm curious what kind of tattoo it was. If it is indeed a cultural sort of thing, I would be more OK with it (as long as it wasn't done against the kid's will). But if it was just "I want a tattoo" I wouldn't let my kid do it until he was older...because I have no cultural traditions of tattooing. If I ever have kids and they want tattoos, they can get all the ink they want when they're 18.

[BookstoreEscapee]

Count me in as another who says "WTF?" to rules against long hair on men. I love long hair on guys, and think that as long as it's kept reasonably neat, then what's the big deal?

Clean and relatively neat is a reasonable requirement; I hate that schools can dictate what style you can cut your hair. (Not that I've ever encountered it, personally, but it's just such a petty thing.)

At the same time, at least us ladies have more options- for guys it's usually a suit or nothing.

This is true. When I started working at B&N, the dress code for guys was a shirt and tie. There was a dress code for women, as well, but you could get away with so much more. No jeans, but pants that are cut like jeans but not denim (cords, khakis, etc.)? No problem. I basically wore the equivalent of jeans and a t-shirt most of the time anyway. Guys no longer have to wear ties, but they still have to wear a collared shirt (they can wear polo shirts, though).


(PS - "that elementary thread over at CS" is over here, now.)