The majority of men are better than most women

[AdminAssistant]

Judith Butler and Mary Astell = All I could find was feminist crap. How is that philosophy?

Judith Butler is the theorist on issues of gender and sexuality - not just feminism. While I don't necessarily agree with her on everything (I do not secretly want a penis, tyvm), I recognize her place at the top of the gender and sexuality studies mountain.

But then, I'm just a woman. Just a Ph.D. student. Obviously I'm just sitting on my butt and not contributing anything to society. My desire to teach means nothing next to the latest doo-dad that can scrub your toilet even faster!

[muses_nightmare]

Philosophers are men as well. Damn. Philosophers are as intelligent as they can come

Philosophers? Really? You know what you can do with a degree in philosophy? Teach philosophy. Seriously, it serves no real purpose other than simple curiousity and speculation. I did take a couple philosophy courses, and guess how useful they were? Yeah, not at all. It wasn't that I didn't understand it either, but that it has no real value in life. In fact a full time philosopher is less useful than the person that bags your groceries, because really what are they doing to help anyone? Nothing.

Also, as someone else pointed out there are many female philosophers. No one field is exclusively limited to men only. I think you should try and remember that. I don't know if you've noticed, but many fields are starting to gain more female workers.

[Rebel]

But then, I'm just a woman. Just a Ph.D. student. Obviously I'm just sitting on my butt and not contributing anything to society. My desire to teach means nothing next to the latest doo-dad that can scrub your toilet even faster!

Scrub my toilet even faster you say?
My, yes I AM interested in such an amazing product.
Just let me get my father, for I am not married you see, and I shall see whether he feels I deserve any such help in my household chores.

My, the brilliance of men! Where would I be without it?
I can only hope to marry one such man soon, and finally make my life worthwhile.

[MaggieTheCat]

Anyone can put things in bags, collect the garbage, and such. That doesn't mean everyone deserves to be thought of as amazing people who have accomplished something. Why would I respect someone who hasn't done anything worth respecting?

So, let me get this straight. Any job besides inventors (and philosophers) is considered a normal, everyday job that anyone can do. Does this include doctors, teachers, lawyers, computer scientists? We already know that "garbage collector" is considered a mundane, lowly job that anybody can do. And apparently people in these positions are not deserving of respect, because they haven't done anything respectful. And apparently the only thing that a person can do that is considered "respectful" is to invent something (or to be a philosopher?) So...you're basically saying that you don't respect anyone except those who invent something?

Don't you respect the teachers who taught you how to read and write and do math?

Don't you respect the doctors who delivered you when you were born and kept you healthy all your life?

Don't you respect the farmers who plant food, or people who work at the grocery store where you buy the food that you eat?

Don't you respect the person who built the building that you're living in?

How about the person who installed the toilet that you use to go to the bathroom, or the person who installed the shower that you bathe in?

How about your family? Your own parents? Are they inventors? If not, do you not respect them?

How about yourself?

[Hobbs]

You never said "In a historical sense", did you? If we have to pick historical female rebels, what about Boudicca, who led a rebellion against Rome and destroyed three Roman cities? Or how about Rosa Parks, who rebelled against the social nicieties of the time by refusing to give up her seat?

Again, you didn't read my posts concerning historical figures. Boudicca wasn't a rebel. She was the sovereign of Carthage; the sworn enemy of Rome. Of course she had war against Rome.

I'll give you Rosa Parks, but that's the only rebel you've mentioned.

[Lace Neil Singer]

My original post was JUST IN JEST, by the way. But since you ask, here's a list:

Cleopatra
Carrie Nation
Bonnie Parker
Nzingha the Queen of the Ndongo
Harriet Tubman
Amelia Earhart
Calamity Jane
Cora Pearl
Anne Bonny
Mary Read
Joan of Arc
Belle Starr
Emmeline Pankhurst
Elizabeth Van Lew
Catalina de Erauso
James Barry

[Pagan]

I got a great woman inventor one - actress Hedy Lamarr (let the "Blazing Saddles" jokes ensue) - she was the co-inventor of a torpedo guidance system that was 20 years ahead of it's time.

Huh... as a male, can I be a feminist?

Boo, you already are.

Same here; at the age of eleven, too. In fact, I was passing so much blood that I was anaemic for a while. I'd be so ill with my periods that I had to take days off school, plus there was the fun fact that they were so irregular, I could not predict when I'd have one. I could have one lasting for ten days, then not have another for six weeks. I ended up going on the Pill cuz nothing else worked as far as my terrible PMS and horrible irregular heavy periods were concerned.

My twin! I got put on the pill and at least had them more regularly, but still had the migraine, cramps, and slightly less heavy bleeding every fucking month. Then cam the miracle that is Seasonique and the even bigger miracle that is Lybrel. Haven't had any of that in over a year!

Ginseng, consider yourself very, very lucky.

I'm not the only female who believes this either. Read all her articles. They're true. http://malechauvinist.blogspot.com/2...and-women.html

I think the title of that says it all, "Female Misogynist". Frankly, that's what you are.

Don't dare say all woman are wimps that cry over broken fingernails cause there's not. There are several powerful and strong woman that do overcome all odds. I shouldn't have to bother with any of the historic ones since you should know them. But there are just as many here.

Plaidman, for this and many other reasons, can I be your fangirl?

If you're being guilted into being a stay at home mom when you don't want to be one, what the hell are you doing with him? What were you doing with him in the first place? Nobody is forcing anyone to make babies with a jackass. If you don't want to do that, leave him already. I'm getting damn tired of women complaining about their boyfriends so much. WHAT are you doing with him?

Who said it was the father of the child creating the pressure. You apparently haven't noticed that it's a societal pressure.

um it's usually a medical requirement not a choice-it is something you have to heal from-lochia or postpartum bleeding is from an OPEN WOUND in the uterus where the placenta detached, you can bleed out and die from that Postpartum hemorrhaging occurs in between 1% and 10% of all pregnancies in the United States. It usually begins in the 24 hours immediately following childbirth (early postpartum hemorrhage), however, it can occur anytime during the six weeks following delivery (delayed postpartum hemorrhage).-heck in North Carolina it is ILLEGAL for a woman to drive for the full six weeks after giving birth for this very reason-so do you propose they walk to work? C'mon show some more ignorance......

Even though it is a normal, basic, biological function, pregnancy and birth can result in our death. Yet, we continue to do it.

I'll get right on that as soon as a time machine is invented seeing as his show went OFF THE AIR in 2009-or do you mean his current show where he talks about food, wine, and luxury cars

You noticed that, too!

If it weren't for Charles Darwin, I would still be wondering why the hell I'm here.

No, he only explained how the human race evolved.

As far as Elizabeth I being just a queen. I fail to see how, just because he was male, King John was better.

If we have to pick historical female rebels, what about Boudicca, who led a rebellion against Rome and destroyed three Roman cities?

Dang it, you got to Boudica before I did!

Continuing on the "women never did anything" line

Grainne Ni Mhaille (aka Grace O'Malley)
Marie deGuise (mother of Mary, Queen of Scots)
Lady Anne Hamilton (one of my ancestors)

More recent - our former Congresswoman, Heather Wilson (can't stand her, but I can't argue with what she's done). The first and only graduate of the Air Force Academy in Congress, she retired as a colonel (I think). While in the Academy, she was sent to Oxford as a Rhodes scholar, and was on the National Security Council.

But, none of them invented anything, so they're worthless....

Don't you respect the teachers who taught you how to read and write and do math?

Don't you respect the doctors who delivered you when you were born and kept you healthy all your life?

Don't you respect the farmers who plant food, or people who work at the grocery store where you buy the food that you eat?

Don't you respect the person who built the building that you're living in?

How about the person who installed the toilet that you use to go to the bathroom, or the person who installed the shower that you bathe in?

How about your family? Your own parents? Are they inventors? If not, do you not respect them?

How about yourself?

And I wonder just how many of these were women?

[Pagan]

Again, you didn't read my posts concerning historical figures. Boudicca wasn't a rebel. She was the sovereign of Carthage; the sworn enemy of Rome. Of course she had war against Rome.

????? She wasn't the sovereign of Carthage, she was the queen of the Iceni in southern Britain, in what is now East Anglia.

She sacked and burned Camulodunum, Londinium, and Verulamium, and decimated the Ninth Hispanic Legion. Her husband had willed half his holdings to their daughters and half to the Romans. After his death, because of the patriarchal nature of the Romans, they decided to take it all. Naturally, Boudica protested and as a punishment, the Romans beat her and raped her daughters in front of her. That's why she went to war.

This is why it is not wise to piss off Celtic women....

[Hobbs]

My original post was JUST IN JEST, by the way. But since you ask, here's a list:

Cleopatra
Carrie Nation
Bonnie Parker
Nzingha the Queen of the Ndongo
Harriet Tubman
Amelia Earhart
Calamity Jane
Cora Pearl
Anne Bonny
Mary Read
Joan of Arc
Belle Starr
Emmeline Pankhurst
Elizabeth Van Lew
Catalina de Erauso
James Barry

I already answered Cleopatra. Calamity Jane...how's she a rebel? You're just picking historical women figures, aren't you? Anne Bonnie and Bonnie Parker were a criminals, not rebels. There have been, and will continue to be, female criminals. Elizabeth van Lew worked for the Union during the American Civil War; hardly a rebel. Joan of Arc was a military commander and was betrayed only because the king grew jealous.

Adding to my original four:
MLK
Mohandas Ghandi
Malcolm X
Guy Fawkes
Jon Wilkes Booth
George Washington
Benedict Arnold
Tokugawa Yoshinobu
Saigo Tatamori
Shūmei Ōkawa
Mitsuru Tōyama
Kosaburo Tachibana

Ed: Sorry about Boudicca. I knew that...somehow I confused her with Dido O_o

[Rebel]

Rebel: a person who resists authority, control, or convention.

Pretty much, anyone who opposed what was considered the norm in their day and age. And yes, that does include criminals.

Either way, the point is not to argue what constitutes a rebel. The point is to debate against the idea that men are better than most women.

Now, if you can use the idea of rebels of either gender to back up your claim, then go for it.

-don't make me have to change my name, coz I've only just got to the point where a moderator doesn't have to approve of everything I post. Starting over would make me a sad panda.

[Hobbs]

Haha, I've been there before. No worries. Rebel away.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I already answered Cleopatra. Calamity Jane...how's she a rebel? You're just picking historical women figures, aren't you? Anne Bonnie and Bonnie Parker were a criminals, not rebels. There have been, and will continue to be, female criminals. Elizabeth van Lew worked for the Union during the American Civil War; hardly a rebel. Joan of Arc was a military commander and was betrayed only because the king grew jealous.

Please can you stop being so rude to me? It's actually very upsetting. Also, you need to look up what constitutes a rebel, as you seem to be confused. Just cuz someone is a criminal, does not mean they are not being rebellious. I picked the women on my list CUZ THEY WENT AGAINST SOCIETY. Society of the time. Joan of Arc wore men's clothing, and fought as a soldier. She also claimed to hear voices. Elizabeth van Lew was one of several women who rebelled against society by fighting in the Civil War; at that point in time, it was hardly a usual thing for women to do.

[BlaqueKatt]

and actually as an aside you respect inventors foor making things to help others and letting them be used?

You do realize that patents on inventions do not mean "anyone can use this" they mean "give me whatever money I ask for to be allowed to use it until I say you can't anymore"

It's usually NOT done out of a desire to help others, greed is a mitigating factor as is vanity(my first husband held several patents on designs for industrial silencers-he was not worthy of any kind of respect-the man was a drunk and an abuser-but you'd respect him because-OMG HE INVENTED SOMETHING!!!-yeah he did it for the money)-I have more respect for those doing humanitarian work-WITHOUT RECOGNITION-such as Doctors without borders-people like them are making a real difference in the world.

Hmmm saving people from premature death vs Shamwow.....no brainer there...

Heck Cyndi Lauper(actress, singer, mother) is opening a homeless shelter for LGBT teens in new york-I don't see Steve Jobs(inventor) doing anything to help people that doesn't involve lining his own pocket.....

So helping homeless teens vs the ipod-which is better for humanity?

[lupo pazzesco]

I merely posted a list of women philosophers, never did I say I agreed with their philosophies. And, because you seem to be confused as to what philosophy IS here's a little definition, just to help you out:

Philosophy:
1. doctrine: a belief (or system of beliefs) accepted as authoritative by some group or school 2. the rational investigation of questions about existence and knowledge and ethics
3. any personal belief about how to live or how to deal with a situation

So, yes, believing women should be submissive is just that, a BELIEF, a PHILOSOPHY.

And saying all that "feminist crap"? Wow. Way to make a point there, stunning ripost, I must say. Read the definition. Feminism is a belief system, thus it is a PHILOSOPHY.

And you're defense to all the evidence that's been brought about over women who have in fact made huge differences in life, in society? "Oh, well, they're the minority, I'M STILL RIGHT AND MEN ARE ALWAYS BETTER THAN WOMEN!!!!!" Weak. Very, very, weak. It's been stated before over and over again that women COULD NOT do so many great things until recently because they weren't allowed to. They were the minority in EVERYTHING, and expected to pop out children and take care of the house. More and more women today are doing more and more noteworthy things, but we have several THOUSANDS of years to catch up on, before we apparently reach the vaunted status in your mind of being great.

I agree with Nyiobo and KnitShoni and the others who've essentially stated that this belief is easy for you because it justifies in your mind your complete unwillingness to even attempt to do anything with your life.

Because ANYONE can do those things. Anyone can put things in bags, collect the garbage, and such. That doesn't mean everyone deserves to be thought of as amazing people who have accomplished something. Why would I respect someone who hasn't done anything worth respecting?

And what, exactly have YOU done, then? I just need to know, so I can see if YOU are worthy of respect, by your own standards. If not, it'd be nice to know if people can get away with kicking dirt in your face. I'm just saying, since that's what your essentially doing to everyone and anyone who works in retail or any other job that isn't a male inventor/philosopher. But then, since I believe in all that "feminist crap", I'm real big on equal treatment.

Being nice or smart doesn't mean anything unless you DO something with it, people.

Oh? Really? And again I ask, what have YOU done, and what are you doing with your life, hmm? Aside from sign up on a debate forum, and shriek your opinions to the sky, only reinforcing that you're the catty person you claim you're not. I mean, seriously, you're posts are coming off as very condescending and downright rude to anyone who isn't male. By the line quoted above, I have to ask what you're doing, because if you're not doing anything with your own qualities, you mustn't be very nice. Or smart. Are you?

You know what? I'm done here, with this thread. You've insulted me, both on a personal level in response to anything I've posted, reducing it to the level of useless blah blah blah and calling my belief system crap. You've repeatedly ignored those posts that call into question your own opinions, and those that request you provide factual evidence of your statements. You stand, as a woman, and denigrate your very sex for reasons you can't even prove. I would have loved to willingly enter an actual debate, a battle of the wits if we were both equally armed, but you've proven willfully and woefully incapable of providing an actual debate, and instead stand on the shaky foundation of your OP, stubbornly repeating over and over again what you claim to be fact, and offer up no support.

And besides, nothing I say has any value after all, because I merely work retail, trying to put myself through college, for no apparent purpose because I'm only going to end up in retail for the rest of my life because my major isn't Philosophy and I've invented nothing, so there is no way I can contribute to society. (Let's not forget I also lack a penis...I've been screwed since birth, apparently...)

So, I'm finished. No debate is worth my time if the opposing party can't even be asked to provide a true debate, and instead squawks over and over "But this is the truth!", which is much akin to the repeated squawking we hear everyday over on Customers' Suck of "The Customer is always right." In this case I believe they, and you, are wrong.

[Pagan]

You know what? I'm done here, with this thread. You've insulted me, both on a personal level in response to anything I've posted, reducing it to the level of useless blah blah blah and calling my belief system crap. You've repeatedly ignored those posts that call into question your own opinions, and those that request you provide factual evidence of your statements. You stand, as a woman, and denigrate your very sex for reasons you can't even prove. I would have loved to willingly enter an actual debate, a battle of the wits if we were both equally armed, but you've proven willfully and woefully incapable of providing an actual debate, and instead stand on the shaky foundation of your OP, stubbornly repeating over and over again what you claim to be fact, and offer up no support.

And besides, nothing I say has any value after all, because I merely work retail, trying to put myself through college, for no apparent purpose because I'm only going to end up in retail for the rest of my life because my major isn't Philosophy and I've invented nothing, so there is no way I can contribute to society. (Let's not forget I also lack a penis...I've been screwed since birth, apparently...)

So, I'm finished. No debate is worth my time if the opposing party can't even be asked to provide a true debate, and instead squawks over and over "But this is the truth!", which is much akin to the repeated squawking we hear everyday over on Customers' Suck of "The Customer is always right." In this case I believe they, and you, are wrong.

Brava, sister-mine, brava!

I think I'm agreeing with the below. I really, really don't want to believe that someone is this big of an obstinate, misogynistic, male chauvinistic idiot. And yes, I am aware that she is female (I refuse to call her a woman, she doesn't deserve that title).