Females/Minorities/Veterans Encouraged to Apply

[daleduke17]

After reading Mysty's thread about sexism, I felt the need to start this thread (Greenday, I apologize if I stole your thunder).

I'm attempting to look for a job. Yes, I have one, but, want one with better opportunities for advancement. What do I keep seeing in almost every want-ad and job opportunity posting? "Females and minorities are encouraged to apply". This just grates on me. Why? It says to me, "white guys don't think about applying. You're only wasting your time."

Why should minorities and females be encouraged to apply? Shouldn't everyone be encouraged to apply so the company can get the best applicant? Or are companies too worried about offending some group (NAACP, Rainbow Push, NOW, etc) about not having a "diverse" enough roster?

I understand that females and minorities have been segregated and discriminated against in the past. I thought we were all equals.

The other thing that gets me is military preference points. Points just because someone served in the military? C'mon. If the ex-military person and I have the same experience doing the same job, then they shouldn't get extra points. If their experience is relevant, then give them points (for example: MP getting preference points for a police opening). I'm not trying to be un-patriotic, but, I'm getting tired of military personnel getting special treatment for pretty much just being in the military.

I'm one of the worst people to get a job, apparently. I'm caucasian, protestant, male who has not been in the service and no relatives of mine are minorities.

[ThePhoneGoddess]

The 'Females and minorities encouraged to apply' thing, I have noticed is mostly used in ads for traditionally 'male' jobs. Jobs like security guard, truck driver, forklift operator, etc, will often have that phrase on there because many women, when looking for jobs, will automatically pass by those ads, assuming that the business is looking for a male and will not take our application seriously. We assume this because it has happened to us before.

The military point thing, in my experience, is mostly used in federal government jobs. Veterans often have a lot of other problems staying afloat in society, so the givernment tends to give them preference over others, because, well, they served the government for years. I may very well be biased about this issue, though---my Dad was an ex-Navyman who worked for the Bureau of Reclamation for 30 years, and my brother, who wants to work for the Bureau of Land Management, just out of a four year stint in the marines which he joined specifically to get those extra points.

[daleduke17]

TPG - I've seen the military preference for a lot of city/county jobs as well. I have also seen, on just about any application I've filled out for any job (public and private sector) that they ask about military experience. To me, it shouldn't matter if someone has been in the military (especially voluntarily). I have no problem, like I said earlier, if their military experience is relevant to the job being applied for.

[Greenday]

After reading Mysty's thread about sexism, I felt the need to start this thread (Greenday, I apologize if I stole your thunder).

Don't worry about it. I think I just got overly excited that I had a place to actually say my views on that subject and people might actually believe me.

For some reason, a lot of military personnel have trouble finding jobs. I'm still not sure why, but they do.

I still remember that case where two guys sued Michigan State for rejecting them for being white males. They got rejected because Michigan State needed to "fill its quota" of women and black people. They won big too. Good for them.

Not really much left for me to talk about, that I haven't already mentioned in the other thread.

[rahmota]

I'll agree that when it comes to jobs the most effective candidate is the one who should be considered. And that should be based on the direct ability to do the job not other thigns like skin color, gender or whatever.

However I do say that beig in the military should give a person extra points as there is a lot more than just the skills or ability to do a job learned in the military.

There is discipline. The ability to take and give orders. If the person in the military had any rank on them at all they then know and understand what it means to be responsible for things including mission success or failure. There is the sense of serving a greater good that comes from having been in the military for some. There is a lot of other beneficial things that I can't think of right now off the top of my head that a person who has served in the military has developed. So I dont see it as just a freebie bonus points reward just for having worn a uniform. Its a recognition that a person who has served in the military has a lot more than just basic job skills they can bring to the equation.

[DesignFox]

Daleduke I agree with you on the minorities/women thing. As a woman, even I think that's ridiculous.

I don't want to get a job just because I'm a girl and the place didn't yet fulfill it's girl quota. I want to get the job because I'm qualified and someone noticed my experience was valuable.

I also don't want to work with somebody incompetent that just happened to have applied at the right time. If the white guy is the most qualified for the job- well, then I wanna work with the white guy. I don't want to have to hire some fool or work beside or under some fool just because s/he's a minority and someone said we had a quota to fill.

As a white person, it also pisses me off that I can't apply for certain things or get certain benefits because I'm white. (this happened specifically in college)

For example- I see all those ads on TV for the United Negro College Fund. WTF?
What makes a black kid's education anymore important than anybody else's? I can't start a Caucasian College Fund...because then I'm being racist. But why should there be scholarships or job openings only for minorities? Isn't that discriminating against white people?

Seriously. In college, I applied for as many scholarships as I could. McDonald's offered 4 different scholarships. I could only apply to 1 out of the 4. The other 3 you needed to be black or Hispanic. The 1 that was left was for ANYBODY to apply for. So, if I had been black or Hispanic, I could have applied for all 4. But because I am white, I could only have a shot at 1.

Equal Opportunity my ass.

If people want to be treated equally, then they need to step up to the plate and quit whining for special privileges.

Like Rahmota said, I could see there being some extra incentive to hire former military personell. But to have to encourage someone to apply/hire based on any sort of racial or gender specific trait is bullshit.

[Seshat]

But to have to encourage someone to apply/hire based on any sort of racial or gender specific trait is bullshit.

I agree that it's bullshit, but please bear with me while I explain why: you might be surprised.

I've worked in too many places where there were people who didn't believe I could do my job just because I'm female. And in Customers Suck main boards, you see a lot of women complaining about people ignoring their skills because they're female, and a lot of other 'minorities' complaining about people ignoring their skills because their skin is the wrong colour, or they're walking with a cane, or they're in a wheelchair, or whatever.

Most of the complaints you see on CS are about customers - but there are some about management as well. And customers are the 'general public': if there are racist, sexist, able-ist customers, there are managers with those traits as well. And hiring managers, at that.

Protestant white males see ads encouraging 'minorities' to apply to a job, and feel discriminated against. Probably are discriminated against. But 'minorities' apply for jobs and see hiring managers shut down the moment they walk in the door. I've seen the look - the 'oh, you're a girl, well you can't do THIS job'. I've been told it to my face!

There IS a problem. I've experienced it.

BUT: I won't answer an ad saying 'women encouraged to apply' unless I've researched the company well.

* I don't want to be the 'token female'. Having to prove your ability sucks, but being the 'token female' sucks even more. Being the 'token handicapped' sucks too. I presume that being the 'token insert-race-here' sucks at least as badly.

* I don't want to discover that the reason the ad says 'women encouraged to apply' is because a sexist manager is being forced to hire women. He'll just take it out on me, and the job will be hell.

* I don't want to work for a company that's paying lip service to equal opportunity. That sucks almost as badly as having a sexist manager who's forced to hire women.

* I don't want to be hired because I'm a woman, and have a better-qualified man be skipped over because of me. I want to be the best available.


Honestly, those ads don't really help anyone. Just ignore the line and apply or don't apply based on whether the company is going to be good to work for.

[AFPheonix]

The other thing to think about with hiring minorities and females, is that in a lot of work sectors, white males still dominate. In order to break the chain of poor people not getting to advance and be able to pull themselves and their kids up, they do kind of need a boost into those higher jobs. It's messy and it sucks for other people who are applying for those positions, but it isn't just PC bullshit, either.

[Rapscallion]

I have a couple of interesting takes on this.

At work, we have an elected management committee. Half the committee is elected every year (going on right now - results Monday). We have a gender policy there that states that we cannot have fewer than two out of the six members as one gender - so no fewer than two males or no fewer than two females.

This was brought in due to the reasonable expectations that we'd like to have some balance. As far as I understand it, at the time every woman voted enthusiastically for this. Getting women to put their names down, though - oh boy is that a struggle.

The other part is, oddly enough, Seshat. The Internet is a great leveller. The moderation team decided to offer Seshat the chance to be a moderator on the grounds of her performance and level-headedness on all forums. We knew her gender and her handicapped status, but that wasn't important. We wanted and got someone who is competent and able to deal with situations effectively.

Rapscallion

[Seshat]

Awwww. :blush: Thank you.

[Rapscallion]

Just calling it as it is.

Rapscallion