That's why kids are overweight today

[tropicsgoddess]

Many people who grew up in the 80's are parents now. They can parent their children the way they were parented then, but they choose not to.

Also, back then, people were more likely to have one parents stay at home to have the time to cook a good meal. Nowadays, there are more single parent families or both parents have to work. Microwave meals are more convenient, since they may not work "normal" 9-5 jobs. They may work third shift.

Have you looked at the price of fresh produce? Not everyone can afford those every week.

As for daily exercise after school, I don't know if you know a kid in school right now, but the amount of homework that is being given to children is outrageous! When my sister was in fourth grade, she had more homework than I did at any time when I was in high school! It seems to be a trend to give kids more and more homework at younger ages.

Gym classes and recesses are being either cut down or cut out completely in favor of preparing children for standardized testing.

What needs to happen:
-Fresher foods need to be made more available to everyone
-Homework needs to be cut down for the younger students
-Gym classes or recesses need to be brought back and extended. More activities need to be offered so there is something for everyone to enjoy.
-Parents need to educate their children about making the right choices when it comes to eating. That way, if the child goes to school and sees the snack machines, they will shrug their shoulders and walk away.

That may be so, but the parents still have to teach their children not only about how to eat right but also instill some good habits on them like exercise. It's bullshit how so much stuff that can benefit the kids these days in school like gym and arts classes are cut out in favor of standardized testing. What's unfortunately sad and true that parents are busier than they were generations ago, but they still should at least make some time to teach their kids what's healthy and what's not healthy. Sure fresh produce is becoming more expensive as we speak, but there's always frozen vegetables and sometimes if there's a farmer's market or a flea market (the one in my area you can get produce there) you may find the fresh produce to be cheaper there.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Well, by your most recent post it appears we disagree in a few areas. The primary are of which is that we need to break this into it's component issues, because there's vastly different reasons and answers to each:

First: The concentration on academia in education to the exclusion of all else.
This is a very bad thing, and it only has to do with obesity as it has to do with everything else. Modern society has gotten to the point where it's believed for no particularly solid reason, that higher education is necessary. To this end, parents have become bent on getting their children into advanced academic classes and into academic colleges despite whatever their interests are. Careers in theater and film for example are considered less than accounting and R&D. This has everything to do with the sort of over-specialization that we've had towards one thing or another about as long as civilization dragged itself out of the mud thanks to specialization. However, there's a certain resurgence to the idea that one should pursue what interest them as an individual, if this happens to be healthier than academia, because of it's physical nature, that may be a nice side bonus, but it's far from central to the issue itself. It's not a bad thing to choose being smart over being athletic, but we need to let people pursue their intelligence and/or athleticism in whatever way suits them.

Second: Outside play time vs video games. Maybe it's just me, but there's still gobs of outside play time. If that's what a kid wants to do it's still entirely possible to get it if they want it, and it's quite often encouraged, perhaps because of obesity hysteria. News and television, to say nothing of pediatrics is saturated to hell and back with information and lessons concerning the benefits of healthy choices and what constitutes healthy and unhealthy. Parents may of course fail to encourage healthy behavior or even actively encourage unhealthy behavior, but that's been the case for every generation. If it's bad to choose only one form of stimulation for a child, wouldn't playing games outside also be something bad to indulge in exclusively? To me the parent who shoves their kids out the door and says "go play" is just as bad as the parent who parks their kid in front of the television. If parents copping out and providing only one option are the problem, that's because they're shitty parents, not because the existence of video games made them that way.

Third: Declining quality of food available in schools. It's true that public schools suffer from poor quality when it comes to the food they offer. In my experience throughout my only recently finished stint in public education, it's almost exclusively thanks to budget cuts. Processed cheeseburgers are cheaper to buy, can be kept for a longer duration, and are cheaper to prepare than fresh foods. Fortunately, thanks to public outcry as well as student displeasure, fresh food has been made available and in many cases poor food has been made unavailable. However, it's still ultimately up to the individual in question, how to treat themselves. In the home is another story, in that it goes right back to parenting. Parents will always and have always had the chance to make poor choices, out of ignorance and indifference. However, many if not most people have become far more receptive to the content of the food they buy than they were, for example, in the 50s.

Fourth: The general backing up of your argument is that people 'can' this and there are people who 'have done' this. None of that actually proves anything except that the existence of something leads to it's use, and sometimes overuse. No shit. The poor definition of obesity aside, isn't it also true that obesity has more or less always been connected to wealth? The more people with the means to eat without manual labor, the more people end up obese because they have all the 'ingredients'. With cheaper food and a rising economy, it's only to be expected that more people can afford to be fat. What hasn't been shown, to me, is that more people are fat that can be fat than before.

[Rebel]

The topic of debate is to do with children, which are considered to be 12 years and under, and the increasing cases of them being overweight and obese.

I'm assuming most people here are from America, so I'll give the statistics for there.

-Since 1980, the cases of childhood obesity (6-11 years old) have nearly tripled (raised from 6.5 percent in 1980 to 19.6 percent, in the year 2008).
-Cases of obesity in children ages 2-5 have more than doubled.
-By the time an obese child turns six years old, his/her chance of becoming an obese adult is over 50%.
-15-25 percent of all American children are now obese.

The poor definition of obesity aside, isn't it also true that obesity has more or less always been connected to wealth?

Wiki says:
Obesity --> a medical condition in which excess body fat has accumulated to the extent that it may have an adverse effect on health, leading to reduced life expectancy and/or increased health problems. People are overweight when their BMI is between 25 kg/m2 and 30 kg/m2, and obese when it is greater than 30 kg/m2.

Obesity was considered to be a sign of wealth and fertility in some parts in history, and still is in some parts of Africa (due to the HIV epidemic). But this was when food wasn't readily available the the bulk of society, and it wasn't uncommon for people to die from starvation and other related complications from lack of food.
These days, in the Western World, obesity is more prevalent among people with lower incomes. This is due to the readily availability of low quality, high fat foods and the poor quality of health education. People can afford to be fat, that part of your argument is true, but this is simply because it's seen to be too expensive these days to be healthy and skinny.

You'know, this kind of thing really pisses me off. As someone who just finished growing up in the same kind of childhood everyone's shitting on, it's probably not a surprise that I take it a bit personal.

I was as active as any other child when I was young. I loved playing outside, be it sports or just clobbering my friends with cardboard. I loved being outside, and still do. I also enjoyed videogames. To me, they were just another kind of game, just one other thing to do with my friends. They were a hell of a lot more fun than most anything we did outside, but we still elected get out of the house and be active as much as possible, because that was fun too.

You had a very good childhood. You were exposed to exercise at an early age, and better yet, you were shown that it could be fun!

What the OP was putting forward, to the best of my understanding, was that children these days are more likely to become overweight or obese due to poor nutrition and decreased levels of exercise. Kids are less likely to go outside and just play like we used to do at the same age. It used to be rare to see an overweight or obese child, but now they are everywhere. It is a growing epidemic.

The topic is NOT about sedentary lifestyles of adults.
It is about children who just aren't being taught about, and fed, healthier foods at home. It is about the readily availability of these poor quality foods in school. It is about how children are being allowed to play video games all day instead of going outside to play. It is about parents who seem to be ignoring the emerging problems they are inadvertently causing.
Essentially, it is about child abuse.

The general backing up of your argument is that people 'can' this and there are people who 'have done' this. None of that actually proves anything except that the existence of something leads to it's use, and sometimes overuse. No shit.

Weellll...yes. That is the point of this debate.
To point out what is going wrong (overweight and obesity), where it's going wrong (America and other Western cultures), why it's happening (lack of education and parental involvement), who it's happening to (kids), and to offer solution as to how it can be dealt with (exercise, healthier food choices).
I put forth ideas that could be used to help alleviate the problem, some which have worked for myself and other people I knew in my life.
I'm sorry that my viewpoint on this topic seems to rub you the wrong way.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Thing is that people throw the word obese around referring to anyone who is even a little bit pudgy. In that sense the intended definition of the word obese is muddied by the fact that it's often poorly used. To say nothing of the sketchiness of the BMI, and whether or not it's accurate when it comes to defining what's healthy.

I don't recall discussing the habits of adults past their behavior as parents in my reasoning, unless you define everyone capable of making their own decisions an adult. While young children (under 12) most definitely don't understand nearly as much as an adult does, they certainly aren't stupid. They're certainly capable of understanding what they do and don't enjoy.

Furthermore I think you're missing a number of my points. The fact that something can happen in no way means that it's happening overly often. The only reason everyone went outside to play in previous decades was because that was virtually all there was to do. At least there are some numbers in play now.

A few new points: Isn't the biggest reason why healthy foods are perceived as expensive the fact that they're almost always marked up so people willing to be healthy have to pay more? The fact that the cost of 'organic' food is often ridiculous when it comes to normal fare?

My beef with the stuff you've proposed isn't that it's a bad idea or that I don't agree it should be done, merely that it IS being done in spades and there's little reason to believe it's not going to continue to grow (with the exception phys ed and recess getting pulled by morons, you can't fix stupid).

EDIT: I have more to say, but suspect that I've descended into incomprehensible self-mind speak in my weariness. More for tomorrow I guess...

I disagree essentially with the assumption that to be overweight is to be a slob that does nothing. That it's some sort of horrible habit that could just be nipped in the bud. I think the risk of being a little heavier is comparable to the risk of getting hurt playing a sport. There's no doubt that there are those who're being spoiled into fatty blobs by their parents and who do grow up to be weak-willed and unable to forgo their bad habits when they would otherwise be thinner. But are they really that grand of a majority of new cases and, if so, is there any reason to believe they wouldn't end up that way anyway by basically hounding their parents who encourage that shit and in the process strengthen the already troublesome 'fat = lazy slob' stigma?

[Rebel]

I think the scariest thing I ever saw on tv was a scene during one of those "World's Heaviest Man" or "One Tonne Man" special interest shows.

The morbidly obese man is saying goodbye to his family before going in for surgery to remove kilos of excess fat flaps from his body. The camera pans to show on of his daughters standing at his bedside holding her young child (no way it was any older than 4 months old). And she is trying to FEED IT A HANDFUL OF FRENCH FRIES!!!

That was some screwed up shit right there.

[blas87]

Kids aren't the only overweight people today.

Last night at the movie, I saw an entire overweight-practically obese family.

Throw whatever you want at me, but it made me ill to see an entire family of people so enormous, each of them with the largest popcorn and soda and boxes of candies.

Ever think of instead of solely blaming schools or the times that have changed, we should blame the parents for not teaching and advocating healthier habbits? It should be a form of child abuse if a child gets so large that they are extremely unhealthy and the parent does nothing to help them try to lose the weight or make healthier choices.

[AdminAssistant]

Y'know, I really do wonder if there are that many more overweight kids/people today than there used to be. I'm sure that there are more overall, but the media does blow wayyyy out of proportion. "OMG FATTIESSS!!!! It's an EPIDEMIC!" (Um, no it's not, my fat is not contagious, thankyouverymuch.)

My issue is that we should encourage people to be healthy and healthy =/= thin. I was at my healthiest and most fit at 150 lbs. My lowest adult weight (at 18) was 130 lbs, and I had no energy or strength and was all knees and elbows and clavicles. Of course, kids should be eating fruits and vegetables and playing outside. But, y'know, it's really okay to have the occasional fast food, play video games, and go to the movies and get a large soda with buttery popcorn.

Even the terms "overweight" and "obese" are tricky. The BMI is totally fucked, and you can't even tell by a person's physical appearance most of the time.

I had an overweight spell as a kid, which I got over in my own time. But it was hard. I'm overweight now, and it's hard. I'm fairly comfortable in my own skin, but knowing that someone else feels that they have the right to judge my food choices because of my body bothers the hell out of me. This morning, I was hungover as hell. Every inch of my body was craving three things: water, Sprite, and a big greasy breakfast. Why should I feel guilty or bad about that?

Why the hell are we so obsessed about this? The body image problems that kids are developing out of this whole weight loss obsession has to be just as bad for the kids as being a little overweight. Personally, I would rather see happy, slightly overweight/obese people running around than miserable, stick-thin models.

ETA: All of this doesn't even take into account genetics and body type. My entire family is short and squatty. I could certainly lose some weight, and that would improve my health (the overall goal). However, I'll never be a size 2, or 4, or even 6. I'll probably never be "healthy" by the standard set by the BMI (125 lbs for my height). And I shouldn't kill myself or make myself miserable trying.

[Lace Neil Singer]

ETA: All of this doesn't even take into account genetics and body type. My entire family is short and squatty. I could certainly lose some weight, and that would improve my health (the overall goal). However, I'll never be a size 2, or 4, or even 6. I'll probably never be "healthy" by the standard set by the BMI (125 lbs for my height). And I shouldn't kill myself or make myself miserable trying.

I have much the same problem, cept in a different way; I have huge hips and a huge bust. If I starved myself, I could probably make a fourteen, but nothing below that. However, I don't want to starve myself; I finally am happy to be who I am and my boyf loves my curves. I'm a size sixteen to eighteen, depending on the shop (some shops aimed at skinny, breastless teens even have me as a twenty, which does not make me feel good.) and my BMI would put me as being overweight, but I'm not. I'm tall, and being this size suits my height and body shape. Skinny does not equal healthy; you only have to look at the skinny chicken legs and bony arms of certain girl band members to see that. -.-

[jackfaire]

I have a gut and my thighs are a bit big. I am not as active as I would like and am taking steps to change that however according to my doctor I am healthy and in good shape because I take care of myself and eat right.

Tells me even if I work out that because of my body type the gut will still be there just not as big.

[guywithashovel]

Granted, I'm not around kids as much as some other people are, but when I'm out in public, I see quite a few kids who look to be in pretty good physical shape. Though, I don't think you can deny that there are more opportunities for kids to be inactive now. Back in the days when most people didn't have video game systems and computers in their homes, there wasn't as much motivation for kids to sit inside all day. If the only indoor options you have are a television, radio, or books/magazines/newspaper, then the chances of the kid ending up outside are probably bigger. Those chances would probably go up even more if said television doesn't have cable.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Uh, I remember having a video console (that I shared with my little brothers) and would have been on it all day cept when I was watching TV... had my parents allowed this. They didn't; my parents would actively discourage this and would actually pull the plug out to stop us watching loads of TV.

It's the parents more than anything; a lot of the parents of sedentary kids are perfectly happy for their children to sit in front of the TV all day stuffing their faces; it means they don't have to do anything as regards parenting and spending time with their kids. -.-

[jackfaire]

I had a video game system, cable etc. My parents let us spend our free time anyway we wished (within reason) I chose as did my siblings to spend most of that time outside.

I used to go explore the nieighorhood ride my bike around etc.