First France, now Australia...

[fireheart17]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/bernar...-1225863347406

basically a Senator wants the burqa banned in Australia.

Just a note: at state level, the senate represents the state as a whole, rather than certain districts. At federal level, the senate represents the entire country.

[daleduke17]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/bernar...-1225863347406

basically a Senator wants the burqa banned in Australia.

Just a note: at state level, the senate represents the state as a whole, rather than certain districts. At federal level, the senate represents the entire country.

And of course there are Americans going to start screaming this violates the Constitution (an American document). People, this is a different country with different rules.

[AdminAssistant]

It is a different country with different rules. However, there should be a balance between issues of security and protecting religious freedoms.

[HYHYBT]

Two interesting things about that article: though it says the burqa ban would be because criminals hide in them, a good bit of space is dedicated to a response about banning "budgie smugglers." And while it's possible to find those offensive, it couldn't be because they hide too much!

The other is the poll on the left side, asking about other articles of clothing. As of now, the most popular response by a good margin is to ban all of them, including things like stockings.

[fireheart17]

Actually, I've noticed a difference as well between the French ban and the proposed Australian ban. The French one is because "it demeans and oppresses women." The Australian one is because it can be used as a disguise.

Admittedly, the media are also stupid. They say burqa, they're referring to Islamic dress in general.

Burqa-also called a chador or chadri, that's the headscarf with the grille in front of the eyes.
Hijab-the islamic way of dress. For women at a minimum, it means that their face and hands are the only things that can be seen at prayer and for religious festivals (i.e. Ramadan). The wearing of it full-time is up to them. So basically it's the headscarf.
Niqab-with the headscarf, but also only revealing the eyes.

The media seems to be referring to the niqab as a burqa and the chadri as the actual burqa.

[Nyoibo]

Ah ha, this explains the interview I saw a couple of nights ago, as was pointed out by one of the spokes people for an islamic womens group, there are no laws in Australia requiring the wearing of a head scarf or any other garb, it's voluntary on the womans part, it's not used as a tool of oppression. Now if we're banning the Niqab because it was used in a robbery then we better ban sunglasses and hats, because almost every robbery picture I've seen lately that's been the disguise of choice.

[MaseMan]

Then again there are over 20 predominantly Muslim countries in the world where such customs are widely accepted. Perhaps different strokes for different folks?

[Green_Fairy]

Now if we're banning the Niqab because it was used in a robbery then we better ban sunglasses and hats, because almost every robbery picture I've seen lately that's been the disguise of choice.

it's easier to cover your whole head with a niqab than it is a hat and sunglasses. hell, i'll admit that if i was in a bank and i saw a person walk in with a niqab and sunglasses, i'd gtfo. like the article said, someone had recently committed an armed robbery wearing a burqa and sunglasses. they were probably mis-speaking and should've said niqab. while not every person that wears them is out to commit a crime, they're trying to prevent those that do. just like if you walked into a bank holding a duffel bag and and wearing a ski mask. you'd probably get tackled by someone. hiding one's face is a security risk. you can't be readily identified, and frankly...it's a little creepy. i get wigged out whenever i can't see someone's face, be it a mask or a niqab.

(and i'm using the general "you", not aimed at any particular person)

[Red Panda]

I've heard the justification that the Islamic garb allows people to commit crimes and not get caught, yet I've only rarely heard of a crime being comitted where the assailiant used Islamic clothing as a disguise. Seems like that is just a justification for something that is culturally based.

[jackfaire]

I've heard the justification that the Islamic garb allows people to commit crimes and not get caught, yet I've only rarely heard of a crime being comitted where the assailiant used Islamic clothing as a disguise. Seems like that is just a justification for something that is culturally based.

It's not that it's Islamic garb. It's that it's face hiding garb and most cases of armed robbery include face hiding garb.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Thing is, if you ban them, won't robbers just cover their faces anyway? I very much doubt that the extra 20 seconds it takes to use a hat, sunglasses, and cloth really prevents people from committing robberies. "Well I want to rob this jewelry store, but it's take me a few seconds to put on m disguise..." I'm just not feeling it.

Maybe this is why I get all those weird looks and the occasional flip-out every time I'm out and about in the cold. People notice that I've got my face covered (Neck Gaiter) and they just freak for no reason. *shrug*

If a business wants to exclude service to those who cover their face upon entrance, that's their call and it's universal. A ban on any one garment is out of line to say nothing of stupid.

[jackfaire]

If a business wants to exclude service to those who cover their face upon entrance, that's their call and it's universal. A ban on any one garment is out of line to say nothing of stupid.

I agree. It is stupid to ban an item of clothing and not all that have the same affect.

Yes the logic in the people, in the government, pushing the ban is likely discriminatory but most businesses at least where I live ask you to leave if you cover your face in anyway.

[Amanita]

I did a security shift at a bank once, filling in for the regular guard. If anyone came in with a face covering, we would ask them to remove it before going into the bank itself. (there was a little area between two doors).

I think it's silly to ban veils and burqas due to "safety concerns", while allowing people to roam freely in ski masks and other non islamic face coverings.

[crazylegs]

Interesting fact.

The Koran does not require the wearing of the Burka in any form. It merely states that womans clothing should be loose fitting [and the hair covered] (I think the last part is in there...)

The burka is not an islamic requirement - it is a cultural one, and simply stands to repress women. It is to be noted that some islamic countries banned it, including Afghanistan in 1959 (obv. pre Taliban).

The Burka is nothing more than a highly visible sign of purdah, which is the system where women can only do certain things with the permission of the male leader of the household and cannot undertake certain tasks at all. "This sartorial isolation only symolizes the whole position of women in... society as inferior beings set apart, animate chattels - valuable, but still chattels. The setting apart of women extends to every part of life: their rooms, their meals, their upbringing, their education and their medical treatment."*

Why should such a visible item of repression be allowed to exist in a free and democratic country?

*Source, Afghanistan Land of Conflict and Beauty, John C. GRIFFITHS

[Nyoibo]

Why should such a visible item of repression be allowed to exist in a free and democratic country?

Because in a free and democratic country it's the womans choice to whether she wears it, there by changing it from a symbol of repression to one of choice and freedom of belief.