Police shoot family dogs while executing search warrant.

[MaggieTheCat]

Dogs bark when they are excited, when they want to play, and when they want to alert their "pack" (in this case, the humans they live with) that there's something happening, in this case that someone they aren't familiar with is in their territory. Alert barks do not signify aggression, they are simply telling their pack that they hear, see, or smell something out of the ordinary.

[Hobbs]

Dogs bark when they are excited, when they want to play, and when they want to alert their "pack" (in this case, the humans they live with) that there's something happening, in this case that someone they aren't familiar with is in their territory. Alert barks do not signify aggression, they are simply telling their pack that they hear, see, or smell something out of the ordinary.

Tomato, toe-mato.

[LeChatNoir]

MaggieTheCat expressed more or less what I think. I was having trouble articulating what, exactly bothered me about this situation, and she hit the nail on the head for me.

As for barking automatically = aggression, I don't think that's always the case. We had a cocker spaniel/beagle mix, and she would bark her fool head off if anything knocked on the front door, or was similar to the sound of knocking. If someone opened the door forcefully (it sticks sometimes), she would have a barking fit. Drop something on the floor? Bark, bark, bark. Was she aggressive? Not in the slightest.

I also don't understand why one shot was fired, and then several seconds later there are more shots. Did they just decided to put the dog out of its misery or what? I felt so bad for the homeowner (suspected drug dealer or not) when he realizes they shot his dog. He sounds so...anguished. It's terrible.

It also annoys me that the only concern the police have is the fact that if they would have "gotten there sooner" they would have found massive amounts of weed. Oh, really? Where's your proof? They didn't bust down the door and find the family frantically trying to flush their stash. That family clearly appeared to have just been woken up.

And this is totally, completely another Fratching topic all together, but I don't think a little weed and "paraphernalia" for personal use warrants a fully armored/armed swat team busting down the door in the middle of the night.

And one more thought...the one article I read said the corgi was shot by accident. If the dogs were in the same room as the boy, what was preventing them from "accidentally" shooting the child? I mean, come on. You're telling me that they supposedly "knew" there was a huge amount of weed in the residence, knew the name of the home owner, but didn't know that they had a child residing there, and they practically go in guns blazing? That is reckless endangerment.

[AdminAssistant]

I still think it's pretty disgusting that they did not even ATTEMPT to calm the animal down, or ask the owners to put them in a carrier, or something. If I had a gun and an aggressive dog was barking at me, my first response would NOT be to shoot it. I guess that is how people differ, but to resort automatically to violence as the first step seems like way over-reacting.

Because that's not the officer's job. We don't know what happened inside. The pit could have been running at the officer and barking, which the officer interpreted as a threat. So, they neutralized the threat. If a dog, especially a breed with an aggressive reputation, is running at me...yes, I would protect myself. The life of the dog is not more important than the life of the cop.

Although, since the dopeheads were willing to keep dangerous illegal substances in the same home as their child, I doubt they really worried about safety anyway.

[MaggieTheCat]

Tomato, toe-mato.

... I have no idea what this is supposed to mean, but whatever.

I still think the cops were trigger-happy. If the child had started screaming and running toward them, when they have shot him too?

[jackfaire]

"small dogs are harmless" I hear this a lot yet I have personally known people who have gotten bit more by small dogs than big dogs.

Every time I have put a big dog and a small dog in the same area the big dog runs off while the small dog want's to attack.

Oh and yes bites from small dogs can still hurt and hurt you if they break the skin. It's not about size of body it's about jaw strength and biting ability.

[Greenday]

It also annoys me that the only concern the police have is the fact that if they would have "gotten there sooner" they would have found massive amounts of weed. Oh, really? Where's your proof? They didn't bust down the door and find the family frantically trying to flush their stash. That family clearly appeared to have just been woken up.

And this is totally, completely another Fratching topic all together, but I don't think a little weed and "paraphernalia" for personal use warrants a fully armored/armed swat team busting down the door in the middle of the night.

And one more thought...the one article I read said the corgi was shot by accident. If the dogs were in the same room as the boy, what was preventing them from "accidentally" shooting the child? I mean, come on. You're telling me that they supposedly "knew" there was a huge amount of weed in the residence, knew the name of the home owner, but didn't know that they had a child residing there, and they practically go in guns blazing? That is reckless endangerment.

They obviously had proof or they wouldn't have gotten a warrant. That's how warrants work.

Connect the first paragraph with the second you know EXACTLY why they had a fully armored/armed SWAT team busting in. Next to domestic violence disputes, drug busts are some of the most dangerous situations. You don't know what drugs the people are on (shooting a person on PCP is like shooting a freaking zombie). Drug dealers can be extremely violent in defending their precious drugs. THAT'S why they needed a fully prepared team.

Admin already pointed out how much the parents must care about their kid's safety. They didn't practically go in guns blazing. They fired only three controlled shots. Not even close to guns blazing.

... I have no idea what this is supposed to mean, but whatever.

I still think the cops were trigger-happy. If the child had started screaming and running toward them, when they have shot him too?

It means you are making ridiculous comparisons, like this one. You know the answer will always be no as the kid is not a threat like a possibly trained pitbull.

[Hobbs]

... I have no idea what this is supposed to mean, but whatever.

I still think the cops were trigger-happy. If the child had started screaming and running toward them, when they have shot him too?

Depends, did the kid pick up a weapon? According to LOAC and most ROE; the moment a non-combatant picks up a weapon and uses it in a manner threatening yourself or the members of your unit, force is authorized to neutralize the threat: up to and including the use of deadly force.

[Skelly]

They obviously had proof or they wouldn't have gotten a warrant. That's how warrants work.

The Atlanta PD also had "proof" that got them a warrant for breaking down the door of Kathryn Johnston.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/27/us...anta.html?_r=1

Narcotics officers have admitted to planting marijuana in Ms. Johnston’s home after her death and submitting as evidence cocaine they falsely claimed had been bought at her house, according to the court filings.

[Greenday]

The Atlanta PD also had "proof" that got them a warrant for breaking down the door of Kathryn Johnston.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/27/us...anta.html?_r=1

Congratulations! You can take one extreme example to prove your point. Fact is, for every corrupt example you can come up with, there are tons more of legit busts.

Also, Atlanta, Georgia isn't Columbia, Missouri.

[Skelly]

Congratulations! You can take one extreme example to prove your point. Fact is, for every corrupt example you can come up with, there are tons more of legit busts.

Also, Atlanta, Georgia isn't Columbia, Missouri.

Sure there are. I'm just pointing out the fact that the evidence the police use to get a warrant issued might not be legit. It is a legitimate issue. Rare, sure (I hope), but still possible. For all we know, they DID lie to the judge, and by coincidence they found a small stash of pot in the house. Not likely, but possible. And yes, I know that I'm biased in favor of the home-owner, seeing as how I don't see the War On Drugs as being ethical or even winnable. I just don't care what people snort, chew, sniff, inject etc.

[Rebel]

A little while ago, I had this dog. She was an Irish Water Spaniel X and she was the sweetest thing to my mum, dad, my 2 sisters, and me. She didn't like my brother at all, but we weren't overly concerned.

My older sister moved back home with her 2 year old son following a separation from her husband. The Spaniel did not like her son, but usually kept her distance. One day when we turned our backs for a second, the little boy had decided to give the dog a pat on the head. He had been around dogs since birth, so he was reasonable gentle (compared to most young kids). The dog didn't like this and decided to bite his face only a centimeter from his eye. We freaked out and the dog was punished. Only 1 week later, the same thing happened, only this time the bite was only 3 millimeters from his eye. In the end it was decided that although we loved this dog, we loved the boy more. We tried to give the dog away, and failing that, we made the decision to have her put down.

That was sad, but any time it comes to a choice between a dog or a person, no matter how much I love the dog, I will always choose the person.

Even beloved pets can be dangerous. I'm on the side of the police here. They felt they were in danger from a dog, one of a known aggressive breed, and they took all necessary actions to defend themselves. It's sad, but unavoidable. When a dog is in attack mode, there is little to no chance of the owners being able to control it, and a lot of damage can happen in the smallest amount of time. If a dog attacked me and I had a gun, I would keep shooting till it stopped moving. I would cry after, but I would always put my own well-being above that of the dog.

[kamn]

A fully equipped SWAT team to bust in and apprehand the culprits seems completely fine by me. And they did knock, as seen in the first few seconds. And them shooting an aggressive animal in fear of their own safety seems perfectly fine as well. BUT why we're they not informed that there are potentialy aggressive animals in the house? Why did they wait after the dog was clearly whimpering, and then shoot it multiple times? Did they suddendly decide it would be better to put it out of its misery? I haven't seen an animal with its "pity" sound (whimpering here) to suddendly attack again (unless you were deliberatly provoking it). Why did they not simply vacate the home, ordering any residents to leave and send for animal control after the first shot? Would even give them a bigger chance of finding something, if there was anything more to be found.

And Hobbs, it does matter. If you go to a park, you will hear the exact same noises and barks dogs use when trying to be thretening. Only in those cases, they will want to play, will be alerting their owner to something, etc. The only difference is their body language. One that we as humans pick up, not immediately, but we do. In the video, there isn't time to pick up, but normaly, i you have a second or two of clear-headedness, you would.

[Greenday]

How do we know it was the pitbull that was whimpering? It was probably the corgi. Meaning the pitbull was still a threat.

[crazylegs]

Are you a trained police officer? Officers are trained to shoot until the threat is neutralized. They're not meant to be marksmen who can shoot off a thumb from 50 feet. They're taught to fire, usually, three-rounds; two to center-mass, one to the head. That's how I was taught.

I'll bounce that question right back at you. You were taught by the military, which has very different rules and regulations. Officers are taught to fire at the largest target, head shots are rare but they do occur, but a double tap is more usual.

To be honest this is a bit of a non story.

A dog, which is large and from a breed that has had a history of violence has been shot by officers acting in their own safety. No person was hurt.

Anyone who thinks that an animals life is worth more than a humans should take a long hard look at themselves and think what they would do if confronted by a similar situation. I've seen what dog bites do to someone and it's not pretty, I would dispair if another officer were injured because of a dog and they weren't allowed to use force to defend themselves.

Yes only a small amount of cannabis was found, but this is not unusual. Warrants are executed a lot of the time and nothing is found. Does this mean that the officers are corrupt? Certainly not. Does this mean they made the correct decision on the information available to them at the time? Certainly does. Unfortunately on some occasions the best information available at the time is not the best information 6-8 days later. I don't know how it works in the US but in the UK a warrant is valid for quite some time, and while some doors are put in nearly instantly once the ink is dry some take a bit more timeto arrange the appropriate resources to attend the scene to assist with the search.

Some have complained that it was a SWAT team that entered. To those people I ask the following questions.

1) Have you been appraised of all the information and intelligence the the local PD has on the male - are you aware of him having any prior convictions for dangerous behaviour for example? I'm certainly not in any position to find out all the intel available on him

2) Have you been made aware of all the threats within the house - was he a registered firearms owner for example, or a collecter of samurai swords?

3) Has he been arrested before, and if so did he resist in a manner likely to injure himself or others?

I would wager a considerable amount that no-one on these boards has access to all the above information and as such cannot make a correct assesment on the threat that the male posed.

To those that object to the SWAT team entering as soon as they knocked I ask you this. Would you want to wait for your adversary to arm themselves before you enter the property or would you make as much of an advantage as you could with Suprise, Aggresion and Speed?