Police shoot family dogs while executing search warrant.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Violence of action is IMO the second most important factor that allows SWAT or similar teams to be successful (behind coordination and ahead of superior equipment etc.)

To be fair to Hobbs the Military and LE communities are very closely related and share plenty of their doctrine (especially in the case of SWAT teams who're to all intents and purposes paramilitary law enforcement groups). From what I've gleaned off of the numerous LE and Military members I've run into while Airsofting / my own research, two to the chest and one to the head is common in Military units and SWAT teams in keeping with the doctrinal 'shoot until threat ends' spiel. Some choose instead to only target center of mass, but there's a variety of factors that contribute to a head-shot being desirable as it's basically game-over.

[MaggieTheCat]

It means you are making ridiculous comparisons, like this one. You know the answer will always be no as the kid is not a threat like a possibly trained pitbull.

I will admit that it may not have been the best comparison. However, I still don't know what Hobbs meant by his last post. A dog barking out of aggression and a dog barking out of excitement/happiness/to alert their pack are NOT the same things, no matter how you look at it. A dog barking out of aggression with bare its teeth, growl, raise its hackles, etc. A dog barking to altert its pack that someone is in their territory will do none of this, and also will not attack the trespasser unless further threatened or provoked.

Anyway, I still have yet to see a reasonable answer as to why the officers in the video shot one of the dogs once, then shot it again several seconds later after it was obviously wounded and no longer a threat, and when the other dog was NOT barking, aggressively or not.

[Hobbs]

Since I don't own...nor do I ever wish to own, a dog, if a dog barks at me, I'll assume it's aggressive to be on the safe side.

It's a dog, why do you care so much?

[Fryk]

Ok, but is it true that the cops did not actually xerve the warrant before they shot? Don't they have to, you know at least give the people living in the home a chance to respond some kind of way?

And I'm not sure how comfortable I am with judging police by military standards. I'm sorry, but to me, innocent until proven guilty counts for cops, too. You don't get to assume that everyone in the home, and every pet is a lethal threat until proven otherwise.

[Greenday]

Ok, but is it true that the cops did not actually xerve the warrant before they shot? Don't they have to, you know at least give the people living in the home a chance to respond some kind of way?

Um, no? There are different kinds of warrants and usually for a bust you don't have to ask politely to look for their stash.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

FYI, the Military can't randomly shoot people either. However, if there's sufficient reason to believe that someone or something poses an active threat, LEOs are allowed to say nothing of required to neutralize that threat. Given the lack of evidence we here have, there's as much if not more to say that the dog posed a threat than otherwise.

Moreover, the police are required to and in this instance especially since the opposite was not enumerated did identify themselves when they knock and throughout the entry.

When a swat team bursts into a place, they aren't silent ghosts that shoot anything that moves. They're constantly giving commands (you know, Stop! Police! Hands in the air! type stuff) and only use lethal force when there's an active threat (like an aggressive, advancing dog, or a noncomplying suspect reaching for something in their waistband.)

In essence, everyone is considered a potential threat (because, they are) until proven otherwise, which is why SWAT teams and the like cuff everyone they find during an entry and determine their status after the area is secured. When dealing with high-risk entries (many if not most drug related entries are, even with pot, because of the combination of illegal activity and bundles of money) LE doesn't have the luxury to assume that someone's not a potential threat until they prove otherwise, therefore everyone is neutralized according to escalation of force (ranging from a complying suspect getting cuffed up through a tazing, and someone going for a weapon getting shot.)

Remember, they're not assuming guilt, merely that someone could at any point until secured go from bystander to active threat without in a split second.

[Hobbs]

Reminds me of the Rules of a Gunfight:

Be polite, be professional, but be prepared to kill everyone you meet.

[HYHYBT]

Why do you assume guilt?

Read that again: I DO NOT assume guilt. I'm just not assuming innocence either. Especially given the.... overexuberance.... usually given to any drug enforcement, and the fact that what they'd claimed they'd find wasn't even there. Which means at best the raid was made based on a mistake, even if only of timing.

It's a dog, why do you care so much?

That's a bit scary. Why *shouldn't* someone care whether dogs get killed? Your question is very much like the attitude many of us have run into after losing a pet: "Oh, it's just a dog/cat/whatever. Get over it."

[KitterCat]

Personally I’m concerned about the constant use of police using SWAT teams for non-violent “criminals”. If we’re going to be told that they’re such big time drug dealers why does it seem as if time and time again that raids produce such little amounts of any drug. In this latest’s incident they just raided a family, all to stop a father from smoking his stash. Oooh what a help to society there, you stopped one guy from toking up. I feel so much safer now.

As for this incidents. It sounds like you hear a dog barking, a shot fired, a dog whimpering and further shots fired. While the video doesn’t actually show the dogs, one cant help but wonder if the dogs whimpering why did they shoot it again? Now it has been noted that police are trained to shoot until the threat is neutralized, but time and time again that seems to be their only answerer to family pets. If a post man, ups, pizza delivery guy, stranger can all go to a house with out killing the family pets why do the police get a free pass on non-violent criminals?

GreenDay, I don’t want to pull the rug from under your feet, but take a look at this website

http://www.theagitator.com/category/...-police-raids/

Raids like this are a common occurrence. SWAT teams are not being used for their original intended purpose. Instead they’re being used on small non-violent criminals, often times for small amounts of drugs and at times with very little police work. Take a look at Mayor Cheye Calvo and the wonderful work they did to his pets.

[Greenday]

Except they believed him to have a lot more than enough for himself to smoke. And dealers with large quantities of drugs like to defend themselves and their drugs. Maybe it was just bad timing. Maybe if they had shown up a few days before instead it would have been him and a bunch of his friends cutting the stuff up for profit who would have put up a huge fight. Because that is what can happen, we use SWAT.

[lordlundar]

Reminds me of the Rules of a Gunfight:

Be polite, be professional, but be prepared to kill everyone you meet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyNuriXG3BQ

[ShadowTiger]

lol true. I love that guy.

When I'm attacked by wild animals, I get kicky. It's non-lethal, and shows the animals who is dominant. If you have to shoot to protect yourself, ... well, I suppose it's a very complicated situation. Best to default to the non-lethal.

[Hobbs]

Take a look at Mayor Cheye Calvo and the wonderful work they did to his pets.

I hope those cops gotta commendation

[KitterCat]

I hope those cops gotta commendation

Mayor Calvo was raided because the Prince Georges Sheriffs office didn’t do they’re homework and proceeded to do a SWAT raid on a non-violent person. They didn’t even show a warrant until 3 days later. They didn’t contact Berwyn Heights Police Department to verify who they were even raiding. You know, things that their suppose to do and assured time and time again are done before a raid is done to prevent accidents such as this. And then they shot a fleeing dog twice after shooting the first dog 4 times.

I’m not trying to say that I’m completely against the police, but they need to be held accountable to their actions. SWAT is not being used for there intended purpose. Either police departments aren’t doing their homework in small time drug arrests or they’ve become to willing to become miniature armies willing to shoot anything that moves. If they want to play war with civilians they need to stop acting surprised when accidents happen on both sides. Stop saying that you have to have the tactical need for surprise, or high powered weaponry on non-violent criminals. Stop acting surprised when civilians think their being robbed and start shooting at the “robbers”.

If the Police in this incident really thought he had such a high amount of drugs in his house, why not just wait until he’s ready to leave for work and arrest him leaving the house? They already waited 8 days, a couple more hours wouldn’t have hurt and averted to family pets being shot and a 7 year old being traumatized.

[Hobbs]

Ah yes, let's not arrest criminals when they need to be arrested; let's call ahead and schedule an appointment to not inconvenience them