Abortion not used as birth control

[BlaqueKatt]

Also, keep in mind, many people consider Plan B/morning-after pill to be "abortion."

and these people do not understand basic human biology, and should not be given the attention they do.

hint: plan b merely prevents(if one exists) a fertilized egg from implanting, which happens normally about 30-50% of the time.

[HYHYBT]

That's not a matter of not understanding basic human biology, but instead goes back to a disagreement on when personhood begins. *If* you start with the belief that an embryo is a person from the moment sperm meets egg, then stopping it from attaching to the uterus is abortion, and the 30-50% of times when it happens naturally are miscarriages; just ones nobody ever knows about.

[BlaqueKatt]

*If* you start with the belief that an embryo is a person from the moment sperm meets egg, then stopping it from attaching to the uterus is abortion, and the 30-50% of times when it happens naturally are miscarriages; just ones nobody ever knows about.

um no abortion is the termination of a pregnancy, if the zygote/blastocyst does not implant pregnancy does not occur.

the definitions of abortion and pregnancy are not arbitrary.

[smileyeagle1021]

the definitions of abortion and pregnancy are not arbitrary.

no, but it would seem that the usage is

It does no good to argue dictionary and medical definitions when talking about such an emotional hot topic issue because so many people have allowed it to become larger than mere words and definitions.

[tropicsgoddess]

Also, keep in mind, many people consider Plan B/morning-after pill to be "abortion." These drugs are extremely important for preventing unwanted pregnancy, especially in rape cases.

This is the wtf part for me. Birth Control and Plan B/ Morning After pills PREVENT the egg from being released and I just don't see how some people consider them to be abortion. RU-486 is abortion, shoot, Tamoxifen,Mifepristone or Methotrexate are used for abortion.

Why is it stupid?

Forgive me if this constitutes a thread hijack, but I've become a little intrigued by the sentiment of "I don't like abortion, but I think it should be avoided" or "I'm pro choice, but I would like to see fewer abortions done." I even started a thread about this a while back. If there really is nothing wrong with abortion, then why should it matter how often it's done or why it's done?

There's nothing wrong with an abortion, but the only time it's wrong is if it's used as a REPEAT birth control. I worked at a women's clinic and I've seen women come in to get an abortion for several different reasons: too young/old for a baby, can't afford a child or can't afford another child and only once I remember a woman coming in because in her culture it was severely frowned on to have an unwed child/pre-marital sex (she had to do it in secret) which I can understand. I've seen some women go in for abortions more than once at a time when they should've been on the pill or had the partner put a hat on their jimmies which is what I don't agree with. There's other means of birth control and there's personal responsibility and common sense .

I knew a girl who had had at least 4 abortions by the time she was 15 years old.
I'll admit, I judged her harshly. Figured she was a slut who couldn't be bothered with condoms and the pill and was using abortions as her form of contraception.

It wasn't until she was pregnant for the 5th time when we were 15 that my opinion changed.
She was off school for a few weeks and so I asked around as to what she was up too. Turns out she was in protective custody. She was testifying against her dad who had been sexually abusing her for years, and who also kept her away from doctors so she couldn't get the pill.

It's an extreme case, but it's worth mentioning. Not everyone who uses abortion as birth control do it because they're uneducated or lazy. Sometimes it's the only option.

The girl kept the last baby. There was a good chance it was her boyfriends.

Damn, I feel sorry for that girl to go through that because her "father" was a sicko. Her case and the others that were raped or went through incest (or worse both) I can understand, but the slags and skanks that consistently use abortion as birth control are ridiculous.

[fireheart17]

I think it's pretty idiotic to purposefully choose the most invasive, expensive, dangerous, time-consuming, and inconvenient option for birth control.

I don't want to limit a woman's access to abortion in any context, but I'm still free to think women who get them repeatedly are bloody morons.

I'll agree with you on that front. It was a heck of a lot cheaper for me to buy a $30 applicator with matchstick rod and get it injected into my arm than to get knocked up and be sitting on a table while some doctor scrapes my uterus dry. (The Pill can interfere with my antidepressant medication, which was why I chose Implanon)

and these people do not understand basic human biology, and should not be given the attention they do.

hint: plan b merely prevents(if one exists) a fertilized egg from implanting, which happens normally about 30-50% of the time.

Thankfully Australian sex ed is usually government funded to an extent in public schools and it's up to the private schools how much they want to use. Rough guideline for sex ed in middle school (Years 6-10 in Australia):

Year 6: Puberty, rough understanding of how the reproductive system works.
Year 7: more puberty, better understanding of the reproductive system, some understanding of STDs, rape, birth control etc. (my teacher actually passed around various birth control implements in class)
Year 8 and 9: went a bit further into all of the above (sans puberty) and also delved heavily into teenage pregnancy and what happens when you give birth. (Complete with VERY graphic documentary...)

For Years 7 and 8, we watched this video called "What's Happening To Me?" and involved a cartoon of different events of puberty. Best one was when the guy was on a diving board....then just as he's about to jump....bo-o-i-ing! He gets an erection.

That's not a matter of not understanding basic human biology, but instead goes back to a disagreement on when personhood begins. *If* you start with the belief that an embryo is a person from the moment sperm meets egg, then stopping it from attaching to the uterus is abortion, and the 30-50% of times when it happens naturally are miscarriages; just ones nobody ever knows about.

That begs the question: does life begin from the moment the first breath is taken? Or does it begin from the moment the first heart beats? If the first is true, then abortion would not be murder.

[Ghel]

... teenage pregnancy and what happens when you give birth. (Complete with VERY graphic documentary...)

I think this should be required for every student at about 12 years old. Watch an unedit video of a live birth. That is the best argument for contraceptives ever.

[blas87]

Sorry Ghel, but no it isn't. Only myself and a few of my friends are the only ones who were phased by those birthing videos. I actually got sick.

That didn't stop the rest of the kids from becoming parents before age 20.

[Rebel]

I'll agree with you on that front. It was a heck of a lot cheaper for me to buy a $30 applicator with matchstick rod and get it injected into my arm than to get knocked up and be sitting on a table while some doctor scrapes my uterus dry. (The Pill can interfere with my antidepressant medication, which was why I chose Implanon)

Isn't Implanon the best invention ever? 3 years of unworried birth control. Plus you can freak people out by moving the implant around. Though doing pole-dancing with one in is not recommended (I did classes people!). Mines due to get replaced in November, and I'm desperate to find a doctor in B.C that has it available. I don't want to go back to the pill.

Year 6: Puberty, rough understanding of how the reproductive system works.
Year 7: more puberty, better understanding of the reproductive system, some understanding of STDs, rape, birth control etc. (my teacher actually passed around various birth control implements in class)
Year 8 and 9: went a bit further into all of the above (sans puberty) and also delved heavily into teenage pregnancy and what happens when you give birth. (Complete with VERY graphic documentary...)

At my school at least, everyone had to use the correct terms throughout the class. If you said anything other than penis, vagina, testicles, etc then you had to take over for the teacher and read from the book to the class. You got over the immature giggles really quickly.

In our classes birth video, the mother ripped. Nuff said.

I never understood the idea of not teaching children about birth control and STIs as done by all abstinence classes in America. That's incredibly dangerous. Even in Australia, I had to tell a 13 year old private school girl I worked with that she had to use condoms when she had sex (she was VERY active). She had never been taught about STIs and thought that the pill saved her from the only bad consequence of sex, which was pregnancy. Her mum refused to let her attend Sex-Ed classes.

For Years 7 and 8, we watched this video called "What's Happening To Me?" and involved a cartoon of different events of puberty. Best one was when the guy was on a diving board....then just as he's about to jump....bo-o-i-ing! He gets an erection.

Ha! I had that book as well. And the "Where Did I come From?" one. My mum gave them to me and my siblings when my oldest sister started going through puberty, so I think I was about 6 or 7, old enough to read and understand, and still willing to ask questions. They should be required reading. Informative, without being embarrassing.

[fireheart17]

I think this should be required for every student at about 12 years old. Watch an unedit video of a live birth. That is the best argument for contraceptives ever.

This was close enough. There weren't any displays of sexual activity, rather it showed what happened from the INSIDE when a guy ejaculates into a woman. Then we went through the process of pregnancy, what happens to the body at that time etc. etc.
This one was a home birth in the bathtub.

Isn't Implanon the best invention ever? 3 years of unworried birth control. Plus you can freak people out by moving the implant around. Though doing pole-dancing with one in is not recommended (I did classes people!). Mines due to get replaced in November, and I'm desperate to find a doctor in B.C that has it available. I don't want to go back to the pill.

Yes it is. I haven't touched mine since it was put in with the exception of feeling it after I've whacked it against something. I know I keep "advertising" it so to speak on the forums, but it is the best and most reliable form of contraception around-if it's a dud, it's usually due to the doctor.

Why can't you poledance with it?

At my school at least, everyone had to use the correct terms throughout the class. If you said anything other than penis, vagina, testicles, etc then you had to take over for the teacher and read from the book to the class. You got over the immature giggles really quickly.

We had to do the same. In year 6 we just made a list but we could use alternate terms. In years 7-9 we had to make a chart with all the different slang terms, then rip it up.

I never understood the idea of not teaching children about birth control and STIs as done by all abstinence classes in America. That's incredibly dangerous. Even in Australia, I had to tell a 13 year old private school girl I worked with that she had to use condoms when she had sex (she was VERY active). She had never been taught about STIs and thought that the pill saved her from the only bad consequence of sex, which was pregnancy. Her mum refused to let her attend Sex-Ed classes.

Depends on two factors.

1) The school they go to. I know that some Uniting Church, non-denominational and a few other private schools are willing to share the important stuff, while other schools are less willing to do so and assume that they will stay a virgin until they leave high school. (The three co-ed boarding schools in my state don't allow that sort of activity AT ALL)

2) How far the parents are willing to teach them about that stuff, or take them to the doctor for the contraception talk.

In regards to both of them, when the Gardasil vaccine came out (the cervical cancer one), there was a HUGE hoo-ha about private schools refusing to vaccinate girls because they believed that it encouraged "promiscuity."

Ha! I had that book as well. And the "Where Did I come From?" one. My mum gave them to me and my siblings when my oldest sister started going through puberty, so I think I was about 6 or 7, old enough to read and understand, and still willing to ask questions. They should be required reading. Informative, without being embarrassing.

Not to mention funny.
My mum took both me and my sister to the sessions that Family Life offered based off of those books. We went to all the sessions. I was about 6/7 when I had the "where did I come from?' talk and I was 11 when I had the Puberty talk. Funnily enough, a friend of mine had the first talk when he was four.

[BlaqueKatt]

That begs the question: does life begin from the moment the first breath is taken? Or does it begin from the moment the first heart beats? If the first is true, then abortion would not be murder.

and a woman who gets into a car accident due to a drunk driver on the way to the hospital to give birth-well the driver doesn't get vehicular manslaughter charges because the baby hasn't taken a breath(yes this does happen), anyone remember Scott Peterson? Did he kill one person or two?


If the fetus is viable should be the standard-viable meaning can survive without major medical intervention outside of the mother-which is around 7 months give or take a few weeks.

[Rebel]

Yes it is. I haven't touched mine since it was put in with the exception of feeling it after I've whacked it against something. I know I keep "advertising" it so to speak on the forums, but it is the best and most reliable form of contraception around-if it's a dud, it's usually due to the doctor.

Why can't you poledance with it?

It happens to be in the arm I use too brace myself against the pole to flip upside down. I bruise VERY easily and quickly. The entire time I did pole-dancing I had people letting me know that I 'didn't have to stay with him'. Always fun.

[fireheart17]

It happens to be in the arm I use too brace myself against the pole to flip upside down. I bruise VERY easily and quickly. The entire time I did pole-dancing I had people letting me know that I 'didn't have to stay with him'. Always fun.

Left or right arm? Mine's in my left.

[Rebel]

Left or right arm? Mine's in my left.

Mine's in my left. Had to go in my non-dominant arm.

[Amanita]

Given that I do swordplay, I can't imagine having something implanted into my arm- I would be too afraid of it being hit, and the resultant pain and risk of having it damaged.