Should governments subsidize healthy food?

[Dreamstalker]

I don't think we're talking about "big brother", just making healthy foods cheaper (especially on foodstamp programs and the like). Maybe free/low cost classes on healthy, inexpensive cooking with local farmers-market fare and seasonal produce. It would seem that a lot of people's objections to buying the raw ingredients is because of a view that cooking takes too much time, and the number of individual ingredients might lead some to think it costs more.

When I was in college, I would see foodstamp recipients each month in the grocery store with more processed junk food that I could eat in a year. I blame the 'organic=healthy=we can charge more" school of thought.

[Red Panda]

Mishi's junk food tax would do nothing to make healthy food cheaper, just hurt poor people by not giving them a choice. It is a clear demonstration of the government trying to control people.

[jackfaire]

My issue is if I want to make a dish that calls for a sprig or a leaf or such of something I have to buy the whole plant because it is not sold any other way then I end up not having any more recipes that need that ingredient and the ingredient goes bad long before I can use it again.

[Dreamstalker]

That's what we run into. Usually we end up buying more of everything else to increase the recipe, but a couple times we ended up with way more finished 'product' than we could eat in a reasonable time so it either went bad in the fridge, or got freezerburn so we still had to toss it.

[Mishi]

Mishi's junk food tax would do nothing to make healthy food cheaper, just hurt poor people by not giving them a choice. It is a clear demonstration of the government trying to control people.

I agree with you Red Panda, but if it does come in then the logical thing for the government to do is to use the money from the junk food tax to subsidise the heathy food and teach the next generation/s about healthy living. Apparently the government will be sending the money from the junk food tax into the health system to support the needs of the growing obese population, as they (The Australian Government) seems to be working on the assumption that the population is too stupid to learn. I'd really like to see where the money ends up instead.

[Fryk]

I don't see why it would be in the poor's best insterest to make ANY kind of food more expensive.

[jackfaire]

In my state there is a sales tax on prepared food like fast food or restaurants but not on groceries.

[Boozy]

I don't see why it would be in the poor's best insterest to make ANY kind of food more expensive.

It's not; if the government wanted to create an incentive to get people to eat better, it would probably subsidize healthy food instead of taxing unhealthy food. "Sin" taxes have their place, but not when it comes to food. A McDonald's meal may not be a nutritionist's first choice, but it does have caloric value to hungry people.

The first thing the US should consider is dropping it's agricultural subsidies and allowing more imports. It's protectionist policy when it comes to grain does nothing but drive up food prices.

[AdminAssistant]

The first thing the US should consider is dropping it's agricultural subsidies and allowing more imports. It's protectionist policy when it comes to grain does nothing but drive up food prices.

However, this has to be done in a way to insure that American farmers can still compete on a world market. The farmers who might get fined or threatened from hiring Hispanic laborers, because they might be illegal. Who are constantly being told what they can and can't spray. "Oh, you've been using this? Well, the patent is about to be up on that, so we'll put out a new study and require you to buy this new thing that's twice as expensive. And you have to use it, because your neighbors are. Oh, but you're within a mile of Myrtle's garden, so you have to use this chemical that's FOUR times as expensive so you don't kill her tomatoes." Who have multiple government agencies breathing down their backs, while seed, fertilizer, and implement companies bring in the dough.

It's hard as hell to be a farmer, which is why there are already so many "corporate" farms with upwards of 20,000 or 30,000 acres. So many got screwed in the ethanol craze - spending up to $500,000 to change equipment to plant corn instead of cotton, only to have prices bottom out. (Corn is still a bit more profitable than cotton.)

It doesn't make sense to me to pay to import wheat, soybeans, rice, cotton, etc. when we've got the land, the people, and the resources to grow it here. Why ship it in from China? India? Egypt? Do they have an EPA that approves what their farmers spray on their crops? Do they have agencies that regularly check local groundwater for contaminants?

[Fryk]

It's not; if the government wanted to create an incentive to get people to eat better, it would probably subsidize healthy food instead of taxing unhealthy food. "Sin" taxes have their place, but not when it comes to food. A McDonald's meal may not be a nutritionist's first choice, but it does have caloric value to hungry people.

EXACTLY!!! Although at least if someone can't afford to buy food... they won't be in danger of becoming overweight.

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

Slightly off topic but relevant:

1. Nutritional and health education is NOT very good, at least here in the U.S., but part of that ties into my second point.

2. Unhealthy crap is marketed as being healthy!

A few examples here:

1) A container of HFCS loaded fruit drink with 5% juice marked as "made with REAL fruit!"

2) A television ad in which two kids talk about how healthy fruit loops are because they are high fiber (or something like that)

3) A frozen Jimmy Dean breakfast meal that touts "low sodium, contains X essential nutrients!"

I honestly believe that most people don't know what real healthy food is and most of the stuff they think is healthy is actually crap.

[jackfaire]

I honestly believe that most people don't know what real healthy food is and most of the stuff they think is healthy is actually crap.

It seems most days experts can't agree on what is and is not healthy. One expert says A is great but B will kill the other expert says the opposite.

[Arcade Man D]

It's not; if the government wanted to create an incentive to get people to eat better, it would probably subsidize healthy food instead of taxing unhealthy food. "Sin" taxes have their place, but not when it comes to food. A McDonald's meal may not be a nutritionist's first choice, but it does have caloric value to hungry people.

Except that for the price of 1 person's Big Mac meal, and 1 Happy Meal I could prepare 1 meal for a family of 5, including a fruit-based dessert. (Steak, potatoes, frozen veggies, milk, and a small-ish apple crisp. Roughly 8 dollars for the whole family's meal. Possibly less if you shop around/use frequent shopper cards.)

Fast-food is really not a good option for cheap meals. It's easy meals, which is good if you're working 2 jobs to make ends meet (though there's also cheaper "throw ingredients from box together" stuff like Hamburger Helper, or other things). That's why I don't have a huge problem with tax on prepared meals (most of which, actually, goes to fund health inspections, so I definitely wouldn't want it taken away. I like not getting horribly ill when I eat out.)


I think the real solution for this is nutrition classes. Some nominal cost, maybe, waived for proof of economic need. Could have an emphasis on cooking healthy meals in limited time.

[Boozy]

Except that for the price of 1 person's Big Mac meal, and 1 Happy Meal I could prepare 1 meal for a family of 5, including a fruit-based dessert. (Steak, potatoes, frozen veggies, milk, and a small-ish apple crisp. Roughly 8 dollars for the whole family's meal. Possibly less if you shop around/use frequent shopper cards.)

WOW!

Where do you shop? There's no way I could prepare a steak dinner for a family of 5 for eight dollars.

I'm not saying that McDonald's provides the most nutritional bang for your buck, either. However, if you're homeless or incredibly busy (ie, can't cook at home for whatever reason), it provides a helluva lot of calories for relatively little money.

[Arcade Man D]

WOW!

Where do you shop? There's no way I could prepare a steak dinner for a family of 5 for eight dollars.

You don't need to give everyone a separate steak. You buy a New York strip steak (around 5 or 6 bucks), the potatoes are cheap (1 per person for mashed, comes out under a dollar if you buy them by the 10 lb. bag), the frozen veggies can be easily found for a buck per bag, and you usually only need half a bag, then the apples and oats for dessert bring it up to about 9 dollars total. I don't count spices because you buy them for a long-term storage, and they'll be in your pantry already.

You slice the steak into strips instead of dropping a chunk of steak on everyone's plate. You've given everyone a complete meal for the price of a Big Mac meal and a Happy Meal (Big Mac meals are 6 bucks, and Happy Meals are 3, at least the last time I set foot in a McDonald's).

The trick is the strip steak. It's inexpensive, but it's still a good cut for that. Steak dinners are expensive when you buy individual 6 oz. sirloin steaks for everyone.