Prepare to be pissed

[Rantsylvania 6-5000]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=123024596

I want this book, and yet I'm afraid reading it will leave me feeling hopeless.

[DrFaroohk]

I hate that crap. Employers should have zero rights outside of the company itself. They should have no right to punish anyone for anything that happened off the company property, while you were off the clock, or that simply doesn't affect the business. And by affect the business, I don't mean "Well that guy sleeps around a lot so there might be a lot of angry women out there who won't want to do business with us because of him"....I mean like you're a driver, and you lost your license for a DUI. Or you work with kids and you just got convicted for some kid related crime and aren't allowed to be within fifty feet of any children.

And there's my own personal "both ways" rule. Doesn't everyone's boss always say "keep your personal life out of the business." Like if you're having a bad day, don't come in with an attitude. If you see a customer you absolutely hate because he gave you AIDS, tough shit, you still need to act professional. Ok, that's all good and well, but it has to work both ways. I'll keep my life at home, and YOU stay the fuck out of my personal life!

Sadly, these business owners are probably the ones funding the law makers' reelections, so they can pretty much get away with anything they want.

[Rageaholic]

Too late, I'm already pissed. I was actually thinking about this earlier today. Someone needs their job to make money, and money to live. When employers tell you that you can be fired for stuff that happens in your private life, they are actually dictating your life.

I really really really hate this idea that just because something is a private establishment, your rights don't apply. Uh, if they provide an essential need like money, than they are basically blackmailing you into their rules 24/7. Quite frankly, some of these things that they do don't even seem constitutional. Hacking your home computer? That's MY computer, not theirs. They should have no right to do that shit, let alone the thousand of other stupid, unrelated reasons they can fire you.

They are right, we lose our rights before we even get employed. Do not get me going on those stupid tests, along with a thousand other things that you get judged for before they even see you. I'm sure what ever job I get won't be hard, it will be all this stupid crap employers will try to pull that will make me snap. Any douchebag employer who cares so much about what their employees do in their private life needs to get their own fucking life. WHAT PEOPLE DO OUTSIDE OF WORK HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE JOB ITSELF!!!

Gah!!! I need to stop before I throw something!

[DrFaroohk]

Yeah those tests are awful. When I worked for Circle K they had this really dumb test that had questions like "If hot dogs are 50 cents each, and you have two dollars, how many hot dogs can you buy?"

And for some reason, only the worst possible candidates would pass. You'd get a green light on Johnny McHeroinmeth, but Mr. I went to college, am an active member of the community and live a stable, clean life will get the red light.

Oh but it's the IMAGE! lol....

Also annoying: When I got fired from the K I called a lawyer to see if it was legal. He was like "Well the state has no laws governing the termination of employees. The company can fire you for any reason."

"oh really, any reason?"

"Yep, any reason at all."

"So they could fire me because I'm black?"

"Well, no that's illegal."

"How about because I'm a woman?"

"Nope, that's illegal too."

"Jewish?"

"Illegal."

So in other words, there ARE laws governing it. They just need to expand them.

I just wish they'd make it so that if the company is going to fire you they have to show just cause, like you're stealing or you're always late. And if it's something that happened outside of work, the company is obligated to PROVE that it affected their business. Like on the subject of "image", fine, if they're going to fire you because of a bad image in the community, they'd better have stuff like evidence of what you've done to piss people off, evidence that it was uncalled for and wrong, and testimony from a significant number of ex-customers showing that the company has lost shitloads of business primarily based upon your presence in the company.

[Mongo Skruddgemire]

There are things I can understand the employers having the right to fire people over regardless of where it takes place.

A Commercial Driver with his CDL getting pulled over in his personal car for DUI is just cause for termination since the employment requirement is a clean driving record as an example. Or drug abuse or other illegal actions taken place off of the worksite as others.

However I should be allowed to post on Customers Suck about my tales of woe. It drives me nuts that people have to use euphemisms and anagrams to describe that they have had a shitty night at their work. EVEN IF that story was not about the company, but some douchewaffle that comes in and is rude and insulting.

I should be allowed to have a drink at a bar as long as I have a safe way to get home afterwards and am sober and not hungover when I get back to work on Monday.

I should be allowed to participate in group activities even if that group is something that the employers do not care for.

That last one was one I was forever concerned about since my wife and I are in a Dungeons and Dragons group and being uber-right-wing-Christian-fundamentalists, her employers would have fired her for being a part of it.

Provided that the activities that an employee partakes of are not illegal in any way, the employers should keep their goddamn noses out of our business.

[Red Panda]

I think for the most part employers should stay out of employee business but there are cases I think where what an employee does on his freetime that can affect the employer.

For example, its fine and dandy to say an employee can join whatever group they want but what about a company in a majority black area that has a cashier who is a vocal and prominant member of a white supremicist group? Even if they keep it out of the work place that will affect business. Black people won't go to the grocery store where the person checking them out was marching up and down the streets the previouse weekend saying they should be locked up in cages.

There are also cases where complaining about employers or jobs can be tricky. I think its good customers sucks uses enuphanisms because it protects the employee and the employer. Theres always two sides to a story and the way that site is set up its nice because everything is private so I don't worry when reading about a stupid manager that it could actually be a disgruntled employee with an agenda. If I were in charge of a workplace I would have a privacy agreement workers had to sign saying they would not give specifics to protect myself and them from going on facebook and making themselves a fool and having to punish them.

I think people over estimate how vindictive an employer will be. A company that fires a good worker over going to a bar won't last long. Most employers know that. The ones that would fire you for going to a bar are the same ones who will fire you for not putting the stapler back in the right place just to get rid of you. I think employers need to have rights to protect themselves from workers who are hurting them.

[Hobbs]

<snip>

That's all you're comment really deserves, but let me expand. Anti-discrimination laws are different than hiring/firing laws. Of course it's illegal to discriminate, but aside from that, a company has a right to hire or fire whomever it wants.

[ArenaBoy]

Laws like this and the moronic right to work laws are reasons why my faith in humanity is diminished. Also, what I do in private is irrelevant to my job.

[Red Panda]

Its not irrelevant if it costs the business customers. Most actions won't but some can and business needs to protect itself. If I need to call a plumber and theres two plumbing companies in town I won't call the one that might send over the guy who breaks into houses but keeps beating the wrap because I won't trust him or the company.

[Rageaholic]

Well there are certain things that could be important. I also recognize that there are certain things that could be relevent for the specific job (driving infractions for delivery drivers). The problem is that in this article, those things are not important to the job and are more about controlling the person outside of work. She gets fired over a John Kerry sticker? Seriously?! Then there's all this other stuff of checking personal records, like facebook and twitter. Unless it's something that could actually harm the company, I see no reason why an employer should be able to fire someone over that shit other than to be a douche.

The real problem is that it would be hard to make laws outlawing this kind of stuff without being super specific. Some douchebag will find some loophole and then those who have reasons to fire a real problem employee will have difficulties. The best thing I could think of is considering it blackmail to threaten an employees job over personal things. At least that would outlaw some of the crap (like the John Kerry sticker). Even if it's not illegal and it would be hard to make laws preventing this, I believe it's morally wrong to try to control people's lives like that. I don't care if it's government or private organizations, Stay. Out. Of. My. Life.

[jackfaire]

I got fired once from a job because I called it easy.

My stats showed that I was working as hard and as effectively as anyone else but my intelligence apparently was higher than the average hire. I say this because the program that took everyone else 16 hours to learn I learned in 2. Well apparently the boss was offended by my finding the job easy and ignoring my stats said I must not be working very hard if the job was easy and fired me.

[DrFaroohk]

My only problem with firing people for drugs is that you shouldn't need a test to tell.

Let's say that every day I drink a 30 pack of beer, smoke an ounce of pot, drop a whole sheet of acid, cook up three or four oxycodones and inject them into my arm, but every morning I come to work bright eyed and bushy tailed, professional, and very efficient and hard working, then guess what? I don't have a drug problem. If I show up all hung over, eyes blood shot, barely knowing where I am, drooling, puking, and being an ass, then I DO have a drug problem, but you didn't need a test to know that.

[jackfaire]

My only problem with firing people for drugs is that you shouldn't need a test to tell.

If I show up all hung over, eyes blood shot, barely knowing where I am, drooling, puking, and being an ass, then I DO have a drug problem, but you didn't need a test to know that.

I am a bit of a klutz one of my bosses was convinced this was a sign of me smoking pot. He didn't care becuase it was a small shop and didn't have health insurance, btw very stupid to take such a job when your working with machinery with moving parts yet no insurance in case you get injured.

If you could be fired for having a drug problem based on appearence well crap a lot of people would be screwed.

People with allergies, babies, middle of a divorce etc. Plus people with drug problems get very good at hiding such problems so they could come to work liquored up and no one could tell.

There are some people that are so far gone they can't operate sober because they are so used to compensating for being out of it. For example a friend's dad has been driving drunk, I dont' approve of this at all, for so long that his driving gets more erratic and out of control when he starts to sober up.

It's like using Kentucky Windage and being a great shot then switching to a rifle that doesn't need it and now your shots are going wild because your compenasating when there is no need to.

[Dreamstalker]

I got fired for knowing how to do my assigned tasks better than the boss did.

To wit: I was hired for a position that wasn't actually established yet (grandiose plan that I later find out was not actually thought out at ALL), and was told that I could set things up the way I saw best. Just as I start to get things beaten into a reasonable semblance of a workable plan, I was later fired for doing just that ("insubordination"). After that the position imploded because nobody else was interested in keeping it going or even knew what to do.

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

Important to note the book pertains to U.S. regulations and employment laws. I could be dead wrong, but I think the regulations are stricter in many other countries.