Renaming of things

[muses_nightmare]

This has been getting on my nerves for awhile now, and I know that other people are bothered by it too, but I'm really sick of First Nations wanting to rename things. They renamed The Queen Charlotte Islands are now Haida Gwaii, and they've recently wanted to rename Stanley Park in Vancouver to Xwayxway, something which thankfully didn't go through. I heard rumor that in my hometown they wanted to rename the park at the centre of town, that park was named after the founder of the town. and I'm sure there are things in other parts of the country as well.

It's just aggravating that the government even considers renaming landmarks like this.

[crashhelmet]

Reminds me of an old joke about this same topic

3Com Park and After:
Renaming California's Heritage

Cisco, California November 15, 1998 -- Well, it's over. The bizarre episode that began two years ago, when Candelstick Park, San Francisco's breezy, freezing sports stadium, was renamed 3Com Park to publicize a communications company, has come to an end.

A review of the great damage done during this brief period may serve as a warning for a forgetful future. It might even help to prevent a repetition of this folly.

Oakland was, as might be expected, the first to follow. The sportsocracy of the East Bay was afraid of a taxpayer revolt if ticket sales continued to sag despite popular enthusiasm over the return of the prodigal football Raiders. Bids were solicited for a sponsor to place its name on the Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum.

Larry Ellison, out-maneuvered in the bidding for Candlestick Park, won easily in Oakland. Oracle Park was born. (Persistent rumors that Ellison threatened to bring the Oakland economy to a halt by inserting a secret virus into municipal databases have never been substantiated.)

Then California's notorious highway department was privatized, and the floodgates opened.

The Golden Gate Bridge went first. The three months of political maneuvering that followed were too sordid for description. Sun Microsystems prevailed in the lottery that was held when all other methods failed. Sun Gate sounded too much like an astronomical scandal, so Sun Span was chosen.

One side-effect: a reduction in the number of suicides leaping from the bridge. More than one would-be suicide has turned away from the edge, later telling police: "I couldn't bring myself to do it. Jumping from the Golden Gate Bridge had class, but Sun Span is simply too tacky. It sounds like a discount shampoo."

BACK TO BASICS
The executives of Silicon Graphics, Inc., had begun to consider a change to a corporate name that would reflect more accurately the company's increasing concentration on entertainment. This reform became more pressing when SGI bought the Great America theme park down the road and renamed it "Virtual America."

Embarrassment grew when SGI's all-digital musical, "Indigo Dreams," failed utterly on Broadway. Variety's headline: "Silicon Bomb Leaves Nothing but Gritty Taste."

So it was only natural that the company would change its name and simultaneously affix the new one to Highway 101, the battered, overcrowded freeway that passes the gates of SGI.

Highway 101 is, of course, now known as "SGI Boulevard."

In retrospect, the adverse consequences should have been anticipated. SGI sales have dropped for the first time in history. Commuters now associate their en route sufferings with SGI, not the bureaucrats in Sacramento.

A happier outcome was found for the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge. This awkward name, born of a political impasse more than 50 years ago, has always been ignored by those who live around the Bay. They have stubbornly referred to the bridge by the name used during its construction: "The Bay Bridge."

Bay Networks, Inc., took advantage of this preference and offered to restore the bridge's name to its original simplicity -- and pay for the reform. Popular gratitude was unprecedented, slowing for a while the upsurge of opposition to the "selling of the Bay Area."

APPLE HOOKS ITSELF
Apple was becoming increasingly frustrated as it lost out in one round of bidding after another. Then San Francisco began to auction off the names of its most popular tourist attractions.

Moving fast, Apple scraped together its last few hundred million dollars and made a pre-emptive bid to place its name on the most famous attraction of them all.

Naturally, the purchase was immediately attacked in the courts. The protracted litigation was followed daily on TV all over the world.

Then the judge ruled that, due to a defect in the intricate wording of the bidding document, Apple had paid approximately $321 million for the privilege of calling itself Fisherman's Wharf, rather than the other way around.

When the laughter subsided, the leadership of the former Apple decided to make the best of it. They accepted the new name and licensed its use back to the City and County of San Francisco for its original purposes.

Adversity may, occasionally, lead to determination. Apple had been, at best, plodding steadily downward. The reborn Fisherman's Wharf ("nothing fishy about our performance") has flourished ever since.

SHORT STREET, LONG NAME
As is its policy, IBM had procrastinated until most of the best sites had been renamed. Then it made a try for Lombard Street, which swishes picturesquely down the side of one of the City's splendid hills.

IBM won the bidding easily but encountered opposition when it proposed the new name: "IBM POWERParallel RS/6000-S/390-AIX-OS2 Way."

Even in wordy San Francisco, this was considered too cumbersome. In the arbitration that followed, IBM's lawyers argued that this was a typical IBM product designation.

Attorneys for the city won out after they proved that any sign capable of displaying the full name legibly would be wider than the street. The final compromise was: "Blue Street."

Proponents of the renaming fad noted that all this was simply innovative civic finance: revenue had been extracted from names, which had formerly been potential assets that had never paid their way.

OPPOSITION EXPLODES
Opposition was nevertheless exploding. It became tumultuous in the summer of 1997.

Intel had been watching quietly, waiting for a suitable opportunity. Then an assistant treasurer of Santa Clara County siphoned off nearly $1 billion in county funds. She was caught, but the money could not be recovered. She had frittered away much of her stake, buying Netscape at 78. The rest was lost speculating on mohair futures.

The county authorities were relieved when Intel offered to make up the shortfall. In that atmosphere, the matter of the county's name was only a detail. Hence today's Intel County, and, inevitably, Intel Valley is replacing Silicon Valley.

Another precedent had been set. Cisco, another communications company, had by that time accumulated almost as much loose cash as Intel. Cisco approached the civic authorities in San Francisco who were, as always, eager for any money they could get.

Cisco shrewdly packaged its proposal as an economy measure. It presented evidence of the savings in letterheads, printing on the five million parking tickets issued every year, signs and other expenditures that could be made by removing seven letters and one space from the name San Francisco.

PROPOSITION 666
After Cisco's proposal was approved, opposition became irresistible. Within a few weeks, enough signatures were collected to place Proposition 666, the Preservation of Historic Names initiative, on the 1998 ballot.

It was a bitter and expensive campaign. Supporters of the initiative exploited reports -- never confirmed but never denied -- that Microsoft proposed to solve the financial problems of Yosemite National Park if the Yosemite Valley were renamed "Windows Gulch."

A relentless series of TV ads showed a malignant, goggle-eyed Bill Gates reaching greedily toward Half Dome.

Proposition 666 carried by a decisive margin. In a deal with local and state authorities, the supporters of the proposition had accepted a key stipulation: names already changed would be retained until valid contracts expired.

Consequently, this article is still datelined "Cisco, California."

At least for now, however, the commercialization of names on civic monuments in California has been brought to a tardy but welcome stop.

Except for Disney's efforts to change the name of the city surrounding Disney World to "Mickey Heim." After almost two years, this proposal remains in litigation -- with no prospect of early resolution.

CH

[fireheart17]

There are a number of places in Australia which have two names, Aboriginal and the English name. A lot of places are also named after Aboriginal terms.

For instance, Victoria Square in Adelaide (we have five "squares" so to speak in the city centre, Victoria Square is dead centre) is also named Tarndanyagga (that's definitely spelled incorrectly).

One of the council districts (and I think it's the ONLY council district to do so in my state) is named after the local people's word for "women's river." There was a HUGE uproar when they attempted to shorten the name to appeal to the young people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaurna

That's the area I live in which covers most of Metropolitan South Australia. There are other groups that are in my state. I do feel a little bit sorry for whoever does the indigenous welcome at any event in my area sometimes as it can be a bit of a mouthful. Most of the words are easy to pronounce and there are quite a few areas that are named after Aboriginal words.

[jackfaire]

This has been getting on my nerves for awhile now, and I know that other people are bothered by it too, but I'm really sick of First Nations wanting to rename things.

Question? Are they renaming things or changing the names back to what they were before Europeans "discovered" them?

[Exaspera]

Question? Are they renaming things or changing the names back to what they were before Europeans "discovered" them?

Or "stole" them, in other words?

[muses_nightmare]

Well since Stanley park was never a park when they were first around, it's renaming. Not sure about the other things, but I still have a problem with it since as far as I'm concerned they have no rights to that land anymore, unpopular opinion I'm aware. We have to be accepting of their culture, but they can walk all over ours without a second thought.*

I'd have no problem if they wanted to use both names, but they don't for the most part. The name is changed and everyone is expected to just use that name.

[Hobbs]

Well since Stanley park was never a park when they were first around, it's renaming. Not sure about the other things, but I still have a problem with it since as far as I'm concerned they have no rights to that land anymore, unpopular opinion I'm aware. We have to be accepting of their culture, but they can walk all over ours without a second thought.*

Maybe once they've raped, pillaged and killed your culture you can say the same thing.

-Fighting terrorists since 1519

[Hobbs]

"The white people, who are trying to make us over into their image, they want us to be what they call "assimilated," bringing the Indians into the mainstream and destroying our own way of life and our own cultural patterns. They believe we should be contented like those whose concept of happiness is materialistic and greedy, which is very different from our way.

We want freedom from the white man rather than to be intergrated. We don't want any part of the establishment, we want to be free to raise our children in our religion, in our ways, to be able to hunt and fish and live in peace. We don't want power, we don't want to be congressmen, or bankers....we want to be ourselves. We want to have our heritage, because we are the owners of this land and because we belong here.

The white man says, there is freedom and justice for all. We have had "freedom and justice," and that is why we have been almost exterminated. We shall not forget this."

-1927 Grand Council of American Indians

[muses_nightmare]

I'm of the opinion that the land was conquered, therefore they have no more rights to the land. Yeah, history sucks, yeah terrible things happened, but frankly, that's what happened. That's how the world worked. The land was not "stolen".

Also, if you lived in the places I've lived in you'd understand what I mean by what I've said. I'm aware that their culture was all but destroyed, but in todays world they have built it back up. I'm sorry, but American Natives and Canadian First nations are treated differently. They have far more opportunities for cheaper or even free education, try finding a page of scholarships for Canadian schools that isn't 3/4 "First Nations only". People are under the impression that First Nations are treated horribly here, they aren't, not even remotely. They can bitch and complain about how they are treated, but don't complain when you are given every opportunity to succeed. They aren't forced onto reserves, they aren't held back, hell, in some post-secondary programs they don't have to complete as many credits as everyone else. Tell me how that's not an advantage?

Like I said, to people who don't understand what I grew up with living in a mostly First Nations town, you won't get it. You'll think I'm intolerant, or racist or whatever, but I'm not. I personally didn't rape and pillage, so why should I have to pay for something even my own ancestors didn't do? Remember not all "white" people are descended from the same culture, so stop treating us as such.

[muses_nightmare]

Oh and about their own religion, the vast majority of First Nations I've met are Christian, or identify as so. Explain that one.

[Rebel]

Maybe once they've raped, pillaged and killed your culture you can say the same thing.

muses_nightmare! Have you been going around raping, pillaging, and killing! That's a bad muses_nightmare!

I would go into the argument about how her ancestors (or other people from the past) did that, not her personally, but that's a whole different topic all together, and you'd most probably just disregard it.

My primary school back home was renamed while I was still attending it. It went from being a generic area name (the name of the suburb it was in), to being called Yuluma, which means 'water hole' (I think) in the Nyoongar tribes language. Was pretty cool when they did that, we ended up with dot paintings everywhere on the property. But I wasn't allowed to help paint it coz I'm of Northern European ancestory But all the aboriginal students were able to join in, so yay!

[Hobbs]

I'm of the opinion that the land was conquered, therefore they have no more rights to the land. Yeah, history sucks, yeah terrible things happened, but frankly, that's what happened. That's how the world worked. The land was not "stolen".

"We, the great mass of the people think only of the love we have for our land, we do love the land where we were brought up. We will never let our hold to this land go, to let it go it will be like throwing away (our) mother that gave (us) birth.". - Letter from Aitooweyah to John Ross, Principal Chief of the Cherokees.

"The land is sacred. These words are at the core of your being. The land is our mother, the rivers our blood. Take our land away and we die. That is, the Indian in us dies." - Mary Brave Bird

Also, if you lived in the places I've lived in you'd understand what I mean by what I've said. I'm aware that their culture was all but destroyed, but in todays world they have built it back up. I'm sorry, but American Natives and Canadian First nations are treated differently. They have far more opportunities for cheaper or even free education, try finding a page of scholarships for Canadian schools that isn't 3/4 "First Nations only". People are under the impression that First Nations are treated horribly here, they aren't, not even remotely. They can bitch and complain about how they are treated, but don't complain when you are given every opportunity to succeed. They aren't forced onto reserves, they aren't held back, hell, in some post-secondary programs they don't have to complete as many credits as everyone else. Tell me how that's not an advantage?

In my own research, I found that Canadian Native Americans were generally treated worse than their American counterparts. Only the Native Americans of New Spain and Central/South America were treated worse.

Built it back up? I don't know how you can possibly say that, considering that the Native American population (on both continents) has never been able to recover from colonization.

Conquered pretty much means that the land was taken forcefully. When you take something from someone that wasn't yours, what do you call it? Oh yeah, theft!

"When a white army battles Indians and wins, it is called a great victory, but if they lose it is called a massacre." - Chiksika, Shawnee

Like I said, to people who don't understand what I grew up with living in a mostly First Nations town, you won't get it. You'll think I'm intolerant, or racist or whatever, but I'm not. I personally didn't rape and pillage, so why should I have to pay for something even my own ancestors didn't do? Remember not all "white" people are descended from the same culture, so stop treating us as such.

So which white are you; the ones who stole or the ones who killed? And I think perhaps that, living in such a community, you did become intolerant. Hell, I see the same thing with the whites that live in my city. They sound like you, saying, "Oh, we're not intolerant..." yet at the same time look down on us.

Rebel, no offense, but it's a bit offensive if you were to do that. I know you don't mean to, but it is, in a way, mocking our culture.

Lastly, I'm supposing they're Christian because your ancestors took their children from crying mothers and placed them in white schools to kill their Indian spirit. That way, you would not have Indians to fight against you as you took more land away and killed their elders. Instead, you would have red-skinned whites.

"It's our stuff. We made it and we know best how to use it and care for it. And now we're going to get it back." - John Pretty on Top, Crow

[linguist]

I'm of the opinion that the land was conquered, therefore they have no more rights to the land.

so if someone forces you from your home, and keeps you out for some arbitrary time period while claiming it as their own, do you give up and forfeit all rights to it?

Oh and about their own religion, the vast majority of First Nations I've met are Christian, or identify as so. Explain that one.

many of these people's ancestor's were converted at gunpoint. forced conversions were continued through the generations until the practitioners of the original religions all but died out and christianity is all they've ever known.

[Rebel]

many of these people's ancestor's were converted at gunpoint. forced conversions were continued through the generations until the practitioners of the original religions all but died out and christianity is all they've ever known.

Thus is the way of the conquering forces. It's happened all throughout history.
Should I hate all Russians and Germans because my grandparents were forced to escape Estonia during WW2? Coz I've gotta tell ya, only a small percentage of them took part. And most of them are dead by now.
Should I hate their descendants now, despite their lack of involvement in the situation?
Damn it, if it hadn't happened, I could know the Estonian language by now.

[linguist]

Thus is the way of the conquering forces. It's happened all throughout history.
Should I hate all Russians and Germans because my grandparents were forced to escape Estonia during WW2? Coz I've gotta tell ya, only a small percentage of them took part. And most of them are dead by now.
Should I hate their descendants now, despite their lack of involvement in the situation?
Damn it, if it hadn't happened, I could know the Estonian language by now.

i don't recall saying that anyone should hate anyone. all i'm saying is that it's not unreasonable for a people to want their ancestral lands to retain their proper names.