Woman tries to beat gender selection laws...

[fireheart17]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/n...-1225889555832

Bit of background: in Australia, you can only undertake gender selection if there's a history of genetic defects in some shape or form on one gender-so if your family has a history of hemophilia, you'd be eligible to screen out the male embryos. (IIRC, females are less at risk of hemophilia because if one of their X chromosones is sick, they have the other one to back up. Whereas in males, the Y chromosone doesn't protect them against it)

I find this disgusting personally-aside from the fact that there are plenty of people who can't even have children, she basically wants a girl because she already has three boys and would rather balance out her family.

[joe hx]

I'm not sure if I understand the gender-selection process. Does the mother technically have a very early abortion if she doesn't like the gender of the baby?

[Mongo Skruddgemire]

Gender selection is something that can be done for en-vitro (test-tube) fertilization. You can pre-screen and select the sperm required to select the sex of the embryo. If you want females, you only subject the egg to "X" chromosomal sperm and for males, you use only the "Y" sperm.

While it irks me that this person is bucking the laws by leaving the country to have it done...another part of me doesn't really see a problem with her decision making. She has had several boys and wants a girl.

It's not like there is any abortions involved, all they do is chuck the sperm that they do not want to use. I've likely wasted far more than that in my nerdly, teenaged years looking over the National Geographic photoshoots of half naked villagers.

However, if it is illegal in Australia to do that...then I'm FAR more annoyed that she is thumbing her nose at her country's laws.

[Greenday]

Sounds like a dumb law to me. If she has no moral issue with doing it, she did the right thing by leaving the country to get it done.

[Rapscallion]

I've likely wasted far more than that in my nerdly, teenaged years looking over the National Geographic photoshoots of half naked villagers.

Good times, good times...

*sigh*

Rapscallion

[fireheart17]

Sounds like a dumb law to me. If she has no moral issue with doing it, she did the right thing by leaving the country to get it done.

There are plenty of things where the morality is questionable (gay marriage, abortion, the age to drink alcohol, the age of consent), yet people do not leave the country to circumvent those laws. (abortion in Australia varies by state, but the general consensus is for health reasons and rape at a minimum, other states will allow it for social/economic reasons and two provide it on request)

I'd rather see it being done if there is a genuine health concern in the family, rather than doing it for personal reasons. In a way, it almost seems like we're getting to the point where we're becoming walking "baby stores" where we can produce our own desirable offspring, rather than being happy with the fact that we can have children in the first place.

[Greenday]

There are plenty of things where the morality is questionable (gay marriage, abortion, the age to drink alcohol, the age of consent), yet people do not leave the country to circumvent those laws. (abortion in Australia varies by state, but the general consensus is for health reasons and rape at a minimum, other states will allow it for social/economic reasons and two provide it on request)

I'd rather see it being done if there is a genuine health concern in the family, rather than doing it for personal reasons. In a way, it almost seems like we're getting to the point where we're becoming walking "baby stores" where we can produce our own desirable offspring, rather than being happy with the fact that we can have children in the first place.

If she has the money, why shouldn't she be able to do it? Just because some people can't have kids? That doesn't seem logical.

As for people not leaving a country/state to circumvent laws like abortion, gay marriage, drinking age, or age of consent...yes, they do. All the time. People go to Canada from the US to drink at 18 instead of 21. People go to a different state that have relaxed abortion laws. People will go to another state or country to get married if they are gay and it's legal somewhere else. People go to other countries where they'll be able to have sex with underage kids and get away with it. Your kidding me if you think that stuff doesn't happen all the time.

[ExRetailDrone]

It is the couple's choice, but what worries me is where does this end? We are seeing all of this technological advancement, but what is too far? In the next few generations, will we be seeing a society like the one in Gattaca? Will children with health problems be more looked down upon because it's 'fixable'?

I'm really torn on this issue. I don't like telling other people what to do with their bodies, etc. At the same time, my parents didn't even think that they were going to be able to have one child. For the entirety of my mother's pregnancy, they were told that I was a boy. Then I was born, and lo and behold, I was a girl. My parents hadn't prepared for a girl (boy clothing, boy name), but they were thrilled nonetheless because I was healthy and a miracle in their eyes. I feel for all of those couples who try everything just to have one child, of either gender, and just cannot for one reason or another.

Sometimes medical ethics are slippery slopes, indeed.

[Plaidman]

I too find it unsettling.

Then again, I've been told, repeatedly, even by a few friends, that I should never have kids.

They think I'll be a great dad, and should totally adopt.

But never ever ever ever ever ever really even think about breeding.



Yay me.


Lucky bastards/bitchs can have all the fucking kids they want, and even get to choose how they look.

Me, just want to have something that is love, made with a person I love and loves me. (Granted, be a cold day in hell when it happens) and I'm the one that gets called a freak and horrible person for thinking about having my own kid made from me.

[Hyena Dandy]

I don't really mind her leaving the country to do it. I mean, unless its illegal, if you're not breaking any laws, and you want something done, you can't do it at home, go somewhere else. My friend gets videogames in New Hampshire because they have no sales tax.

I don't see what she did as any more legally questionable than driving for a few hours to get something without sales tax. I can understand how its annoying, and every life is sacred, but really I don't see much to complain about. She's still having a kid. Its not like she had an abortion, or even birth control. I don't have a problem with either of those, but those are to me a lot more morally suspect (as in maybe 1 or 2 out of a hundred instead of 0) than just trying to get a different gender.

It is the couple's choice, but what worries me is where does this end? We are seeing all of this technological advancement, but what is too far? In the next few generations, will we be seeing a society like the one in Gattaca? Will children with health problems be more looked down upon because it's 'fixable'?

I worry more when people invoke the slippery slope fallacy. There's a difference between being able to make it so a child doesn't get sick/whatever, which I see as totally possible, and discriminating against those who do. There's not much of a slope there. Its more of a cliff. Or a wall.

[Nyoibo]

I don't really mind her leaving the country to do it. I mean, unless its illegal, if you're not breaking any laws, and you want something done, you can't do it at home, go somewhere else.

Thing is, it is illegal in Australia, she's going overseas to avoid our laws, it's like (and I know they're nothing like the same thing) wanting to have sex with someone underage so going to a country with no laws against it, or wanting to kill a homosexual so going to a country where it's not illegal, you want to do something that is illegal in your own country so you go somewhere it isn't to do it.

[Greenday]

Thing is, it is illegal in Australia, she's going overseas to avoid our laws, it's like (and I know they're nothing like the same thing) wanting to have sex with someone underage so going to a country with no laws against it, or wanting to kill a homosexual so going to a country where it's not illegal, you want to do something that is illegal in your own country so you go somewhere it isn't to do it.

Is there an actual law that says you can't do it in other countries? Or does the law just say you can't do it in Australia? Cause they are two completely different things.

[Hyena Dandy]

Is there an actual law that says you can't do it in other countries? Or does the law just say you can't do it in Australia? Cause they are two completely different things.

Indeed. And I think there's a large difference between trying to sleep with ten year olds or murder, and trying to get the baby gender you want. Although I'm Nyoibo in no way intended to imply that there wasn't.

[Nyoibo]

Indeed. And I think there's a large difference between trying to sleep with ten year olds or murder, and trying to get the baby gender you want. Although I'm Nyoibo in no way intended to imply that there wasn't.

If you check my post the bracketed text says as much.

[Hyena Dandy]

If you check my post the bracketed text says as much.

Thank you for pointing that out. I do miss things sometimes.

I did say I was sure that you didn't mean that though.

Although out of curiosity, why is it morally wrong to go somewhere else if the law, while admittedly it makes sense, isn't an issue of something like murder or pedophilia? I don't see the difference between this and the sales tax example I provided.