How can you 'go green'?

[Amethyst Hunter]

One of the local newscasts tonight featured a segment on environmentalism and ways people can reduce their 'carbon footprints' - that is, the amount of damage unintentionally done to the environment through the rigors of daily living. I find it interesting that there is one big way that people can 'go green' that very few people are willing to talk about openly, much less actually consider. What is it?

Not. Having. Children. (through actual conception, that is)

In a lot of societies, particularly American, having kids is largely seen as something that People Just Do, or Are Supposed To Do, which is why many people get defensive/offensive when someone they know proclaims a desire never to have any kids at all, or to have kids only through adoption. Childfree folks (what we who don't have kids call ourselves, because to us the term 'childless' implies that we're missing something we aren't) are no strangers to the commonly used phrases (often called 'bingoes' in CF lingo) people (sometimes even total strangers) use to persuade us that forgoing childbearing/rearing is supposedly a Big Mistake:

- "You'll change your mind." (Most heard)
- "What if you meet a man/woman of your dreams?"
- "But having kids is worth it!"
- "You must hate kids/have had a bad childhood to not want to have any."
- "You're being selfish, not giving your parents grandchildren."
- "But adoption isn't the same thing as having Your Own."
- "But your family name/lineage will die out."
- "But my religion says you're supposed to."
- "But who will take care of you when you get old?"
- "But you'd make such a good parent because you're so good with kids/are really smart/have good genes/etc.."

And so on.

But realistically, let's look at the bigger picture. I personally think that people who deny that we're facing overpopulation have their heads stuck in the sand. It's a given fact, crowd too many life forms in a single container and they'll fight tooth and nail over limited resources. It's why, to use an example of pets, aquarium hobbyists are told to only keep a certain number of fish in a certain size aquarium, or the quality of the fishes' health will inevitably deteriorate due to infighting and increased water pollution from excess waste materials.

If we want current and future generations to enjoy a decent quality of life, and to have the same availability and appreciation for nature and the like that we did/do, it behooves us to regulate our own growth, or risk having it done for us in ways that are extremely unpleasant (war, famine, incurable disease).

This doesn't mean that nobody can ever have kids ever again. It just means that people need to think, long and seriously, about WHY they want to have children instead of 'just doing it'. Having kids is, at heart, a selfish decision - and let me clarify what I mean by 'selfish': Selfish is not always a *bad* thing; most of what we do in regards to our own lives is selfish and a certain amount of selfishness is *necessary* to ensure our survival. When I use 'selfish' in this context it simply means that it is a choice - the same that choosing *not* to have kids is - that some people want to do for personal reasons.

If you can honestly say that you want kids because you love and enjoy being around them more often than not, are financially, mentally and physically capable of meeting all their required needs, believe you can endure the various trials that raising a human being from infancy to young adulthood inevitably brings, and are comfortable with the likelihood that the resulting person will hold some different values and opinions from your own, then great.

If, however, you are considering having kids because of peer or relative pressure, aren't really sure if this is a 24/7 no-vacations-fulltime job that you want to take on for the next approximate 20 years of your life, don't think you can handle the inevitable stresses and bumps of particular age phases, aren't thrilled with the fact that your body is permanently altered by pregnancy and that your life will be drastically altered for at least the first several years of baby's life due to the fact that you CANNOT leave them unsupervised, ever, or just in general have even the smallest amount of doubt about your ability to raise a relatively stable person, you should probably not have kids...at least not before first getting a hefty dose of exposure to the kinds of daily maintenance that raising kids requires; that information can be very helpful in determining whether you have a true desire for parenthood or if you just get along by mentoring kids or teaching or some such (which many CF do), depending on your personal tolerance level.

In addition to reducing the collective carbon footprint (fewer people = less mass consumption = less waste output), the greater the chance that more children who are genuinely wanted will be raised with better stability and turn out more well-adjusted. People tend to do well those things they really want and carefully prepare to do, so it follows that those who really, truly want to be parents who have seriously thought things over will be better parents and not the kind that thinks kids are the latest fashion accessory. And that, in the long run, benefits everybody.

[Seshat]

I agree with Amethyst Hunter: I believe a lot of the problems we face would be reduced with a smaller population. I also believe that children deserve to be born to parents who want them.

Simply reducing the number of parents would help both the world, and children. I feel that - given that 6 billion is a hell of a lot of humans - only those people who actively desire to raise children should be having them.

As I said in a different thread, parents should be people who enjoy the company of babies, toddlers, pre-adolescents, teenagers, young adults, and middle-aged adults. Parents should be people who enjoy the process of taking a baby and helping it develop into a healthy functional adult with the ability to be happy in life (disabilities permitting).

If only those people become parents, I strongly suspect that our population will reduce somewhat, then stabilise. Obviously, since it's never been tried, that's not a guaranteed fact.

And yes, my own family practices that. Take my household: me, my husband, and my best friend. Six people in the grandparent generation. From those six grandparents, there are two people in the child generation: my brother's kids. If we add my sister-in-law's parents, we actually get eight people in the grandparent generation and still only two in the child generation.

Obviously, cutting the population by 75% - as in my family - is probably a bit TOO drastic. But this sample is very small, and biased by the fact that the three of us have self-selected for not having kids.

In our case, it's also a eugenics thing. My genes, my husband's genes, and my best friend's genes are all sour. We wouldn't wish our disabilities/health issues on our worst enemies, much less on our own children. Voluntary eugenics.

If you want to make your mark on the world, write a book. Or a poem, or a song, or a movie. Make handcrafted furniture. Clean a nearby stream of exotics and return it to a nigh-untouched state. Develop a new recipe and post it to the 'net. Teach the neighbours' children a song - preferably an annoying one like 'the song that never ends'. Pass on your memetics, not your genetics. Pass on ideas, knowledge, or things.

Still. Back to the primary topic: if you don't actively, desperately want to take a baby with its own developing personality and interests, and potential disabilities, and guide its development into a hopefully healthy and happy adult - DON'T DO IT! You don't have to!

Only be a parent if you really, truly want to be one. Later generations will thank you. Okay, possibly not. But they'll certainly benefit.

[Greenday]

I love how people are shocked and offended when I say I don't want to kids. Just the other day, one of my friends told me I'm horrible for not wanting to have kids. Still can't figure out her logic on that one.

Luckily, my girlfriend says when she's married and settled down, she just wants to adopt kids. Works for me. Get to skip the most annoying stage of a kid's life.

[Norton]

My sister and I have both vowed to never have children, much to the dismay of our parents. She's in her mid-thirties and has had a tubal ligation. I'll probably do the same when I'm her age. I've had each of those "bingoes" that Amythest Hunter listed thrown at me at one time or another, and I'm still positive in my non-desire to have children.

I agree that the world would be better off with less humans. Actually, I take it a step further and think that Earth would be better off with no humans. I rather like the views of these people: VHEMT

However there are other very important people that have influenced my decision to remain childfree: The children I'll never have. The child I can't afford will not suffer a life of poverty. The child I don't really want will never feel my resentment towards him/her. The children that I'm not mentally prepared to take care of will never grow up maladjusted. The children I'll never have will never suffer an embarrassing and sometimes unbearably painful hereditary skin condition.

In my case, having a child would be selfish, as Amythest Hunter pointed out. Yet people think there's something wrong with me because I don't want a "baaaabieeee awwww." I do want something small and cute that loves me and depends on me... which is why I have cats.

[Saydrah]

*standing ovation*

Yes! I am also a non-child wanting person, and I always get every one of those bingoes- and I'm not even old enough to start having kids, IMO! I mean, sure, plenty of people DO have kids at my age, but if I wanted them, I'd want them AFTER college, not during.

If I find that when I'm older I crave the opportunity to raise a kid, I'll adopt one. My primary SO does want kids, but his brother hopes to have children and he'd be happy to have nephews instead of sons.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I don't want kids, my boyf doesn't want kids. We both each have a sibling who is having/has had a kid, so there's no problem with carrying on the line. However, there are still people saying, "You'll change your minds," to us.

Actually, I kind of like being able to go out at night and stay up til 4am, spontainiously decide to go out to lunch and also to lie in on my day off. I've also grown quite fond of my pelvic floor over the years.

[Sylvia727]

I'm one of those people who wants "bay-bees!". I know I'm not ready yet, and it will probably take a few years of active preparation before I am, such as volunteering to work with children to make sure I can survive it and numbers-crunching to make sure I can afford it. I don't have any articulate reason for wanting one; if pressed, I would probably claim evolutionary imperative, just to be obscure. The simple fact is that I've always wanted to have my own family, and I've always envisioned myself as a mother. I've been considering adoption, but I don't think I could mentor a traumatized child, and the cute li'l ones have a waiting list eight years long. Maybe a child from a 3rd world country, I don't know. I do know that I dislike the idea of not raising children.

I won't disparage y'all's decisions though, especially since I'm outnumbered

And rather on the same topic: I mostly hear women talking about the children they expect to have. Of the eight or nine guys I informally polled, about half didn't care about the child's name as long as it wasn't "hideous", and only one had a name picked out. Of the gals, all of them would give the matter deep consideration, and about half already a list about five or six names long. The guys just didn't think about their hypothetical kids too much, or how it would impact them; the gals had devoted much time and thought. Gender roles at their subtle best?

[Boozy]

I want babies, too.

But as far as the "going green" thing, I agree that North Americans and Europeans are total resource hogs. Its almost unavoidable that my children will be as well, at least in comparison to their third-world peers.

I am a pretty big green nut. I recycle everything, compost what I can, walk instead of drive, volunteer for my local Sierra Club, etc. So I'll do what I can to continue that when I have kids. I plan to use reusable cloth diapers, for example. And I see no reason to buy an SUV just because I've bred.

I appreciate the OP's sentiment, but no one is going to base their decision to reproduce on environmental reasons. This is a very emotional and life-changing decision with its roots based in millions of years of evolution. If someone doesn't want kids, then one of the benefits of that is the enjoyment of knowing that they will be leaving less of an ecological footprint. But for someone whose DNA yearns to be replicated, that is not enough of a draw.

[protege]

I am a pretty big green nut. I recycle everything, compost what I can, walk instead of drive, volunteer for my local Sierra Club, etc.

I'm pretty green too. I actually throw out very little--nearly everything gets recycled. I've fitted most of my lights with those swirly fluorescent bulbs, bought more efficient appliances, a car that gets between 40-45mpg, etc. I also look for things I can reuse (or repaint, or whatever) instead of buying new. That's why one of my shop vehicles is a 1959 Radio-Flyer wagon. It's a bit rusty, but it does the job

[Amethyst Hunter]

I appreciate the OP's sentiment, but no one is going to base their decision to reproduce on environmental reasons. This is a very emotional and life-changing decision with its roots based in millions of years of evolution. If someone doesn't want kids, then one of the benefits of that is the enjoyment of knowing that they will be leaving less of an ecological footprint. But for someone whose DNA yearns to be replicated, that is not enough of a draw.

You'd be surprised. Quite a few CF have listed environmental concerns as one of their big reasons in deciding not to have kids. It's not the sole reason *I* decided I wasn't going to do it, but it is a big factor for me.

DNA is not an end-all-be-all force. If it was, can you just imagine the chaos we'd have in the streets? It's 'nature' to fight, draw blood, even kill. Just because we have the ability to do something doesn't always mean that we *should*. We've all seen, maybe even know of, those people who had kids who just shouldn't have, despite claiming that they "wuv teh babies" (well, if you - generic you - "wuvved" them so much, you'd oh, *discipline* them? Make sure they have the physical and emotional resources they need to become relatively stable, functioning adults?).

As Seshat said, for some of us, it's better to pass on the memetics, not the genetics.

[Teysa]

My desire to not have kids has little to do with the environment. Unless it's the desire to not add more noise to it. That being said, I try to walk or ride the bus whenever possible and recycle what I can. As far as kids go, I simply enjoy my independence. I like being able to do pretty much what I want as long as I have the time/money. Selfish? Maybe. But, at least it's honest and I'm not bringing a child into the world whom I'd end up resenting.

[Seshat]

I appreciate the OP's sentiment, but no one is going to base their decision to reproduce on environmental reasons.

Odd. In that case, one of my best friends doesn't exist!

She's been spending the last few years seriously considering whether or not she wants a child. Her biology has been beating at her, but she's got some health issues and she told her biology to go take a hike while she got those sorted out.

In the last year, she's been helping another of our friends with her children - both have disabilities, so she's been seeing a near worst-case scenario - and she's been thoroughly enjoying herself.

So now: she wants kids. Ideally, kids of her own. She wants to be pregnant, she tells me. (For me, that sounds like a nightmare! But she's not me.)

But the one factor she's so far been completely unable to resolve is the environmental. She has answers for housing, for the financial considerations, for handling things if her health issues go bad, for handling a disabled child if that's what she gets. She knows how she's going to organise schooling, safety - everything. But she can't justify, in her own mind, adding another human being to the planet.

She's seriously considering adoption or fostering, rather than having her own, for precisely that reason.

But, at least it's honest and I'm not bringing a child into the world whom I'd end up resenting.

Far, far better to regret not having kids than to regret having them.

[Saydrah]

And rather on the same topic: I mostly hear women talking about the children they expect to have. Of the eight or nine guys I informally polled, about half didn't care about the child's name as long as it wasn't "hideous", and only one had a name picked out. Of the gals, all of them would give the matter deep consideration, and about half already a list about five or six names long. The guys just didn't think about their hypothetical kids too much, or how it would impact them; the gals had devoted much time and thought. Gender roles at their subtle best?

My primary SO might surprise you. Before he met me, he had already decided he wanted two sons and one daughter and what to name them all.

So the names happened to come from video games... they're meaningful to him, and I'm not having a child to curse with his very sweet and meaningful but embarrassing name choices, so I can appreciate that he cared.

[DesignFox]

But, at least it's honest and I'm not bringing a child into the world whom I'd end up resenting.

I agree with that sentiment.

I don't want children for many reasons. I will admit, part of me agrees that there are too many people on this planet....

But, I also don't want children, simply because I like my freedom. I would resent not being able to do certain things (especially ride my horse!). So, I am not going to bring a child into the world that I have no desire to sit at home and care for. That's not fair to the child!

Additionally, the idea of a pregnancy scares me a bit. I don't want my organs smooshed, my body to blow up like a balloon, my boobs to get sore...or to risk complications giving birth. I just don't want it. Sometimes I think how cool it might be to feel something growing inside of me...but then I think of morning sickness, sore backs, having to pee all the time, and getting torn up giving birth...etc. Um...no thanks.

And this will sound selfish and horrible, but I DO worry what would happen if I had a child with a disability. I don't have any major problems myself (just some allergies and eyesight that needs correction) but what if something "goes wrong"? I don't want to expend the time or energy caring for a child with a disabiliity. Especially, if, deities forbid, it has a majorly debilitating mental or physical handicap. That's just not something I'm prepared to deal with emotionally or physically.

So, for both selfish and environmental (mostly selfish) reasons...I don't want children.

Thankfully, my SO doesn't care to have any children. (He just doesn't like kids and according to his mother, disliked them even when he was one.)

*shrug* People are shocked when I tell them these things.

Almost everyone insists that both of us will change our minds. Maybe we will...who knows. We will be different people in four or five years.

But for now, that's where I stand.

[Sylvia727]

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be or already being child-free and I have a ton of reasons why.

Please do share! Also, do you have any reasons against child-bearing? I'd be interested to hear this.