I am beginning to fear the educational system in my state

[Racket_Man]

I was going to put this on CS but figured it would be better here

On CS there is a thread alledging the downfall of the US educational system. it is in the Anuals of Ancient CS.

http://www.customerssuck.com/board/s...ight=education

I am starting to wonder myself about the math skills they teach in schools these days. The following is a generalized description of situations I deal with personaly 3 or 4 times a week and hear about numerous times from other drivers.

Situation #1

Customer pays with a credit card. as required they sign the CC slip. if they wish to place a tip on the CC slip they may do so and they they can total the full amount (order total + tip) on a seperate line.

for example: the customer's order total is $33.48. they specifically write $2.00 on the tip line for a total of $35.48.

here is where I get upset/pissed off.

the customer specifically writes in the TOTAL LINE $35.00 (we are not allowed to point out customer "errors") so I get screwed out of 52 cents. that may NOT seem like a large amount to you, but over half of my meger income comes from tips. have this happen over a period of time and it starts to add up.

Now when I get cashed out the manager is REQUIRED to cash me out based on the total written on the TOTAL LINE not the "intended tip" + order total. this is because if the CC charge get disputed the amount on the total line is the one used to determine the validity of the charge.

How fracking hard is it to actually use a very small part of the brain and do simple addition correctly.; something a person should have learned back in 1st grade.

Situation #2

this situation may be an an hosest mistake but I feel it is an attempt to scam the driver out of money because it happens frequently enough.

customer pays with cash. the order total again is $33.48. the customer specifically asks for $8.00 back in change. a difference of $1.48. driver points out that the amount of change would be more than the order total. customer sputters and sparks at being caught out. said driver usually walks away with a joke tip. in this case 52 cents as the customer now wants $6 back.


HOW flippin hard is it to do simple math these days???? back in my childhood (some 40 odd years ago) you were taught to do things like this in your head (esp something that simple) as there were no electronic pocket calculators or other "aids" to "help" you.

I fear the education system now as I fully believe that the movie Idiocrocy is coming to past in the future.

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

At my store I quite commonly have people who can't seem to handle the part of the transaction that comes after I tell them the total. They will either:

A) Throw some random amount of money on the counter, expecting ME to count it out and separate what they need to pay me from what they don't.

B) Not give me enough money and be oblivious to this fact until I point it out.

C) Leave a bunch of crumpled up bills on the counter, grab their item and leave fast. We lost $7 on a sale once because of someone doing this. Now obviously I think this was a scam and NOT someone being dumb with math, but I can't be sure.

[Exaspera]

I freely admit that when calculators came out, the teensy mathability part of my brain went dormant. Before that, I could add a column of numbers, etc. with no problem. I am still thankful for being forced to learn my multiplication tables in 4th grade, though.

However, I do have an app on my phone that will help me with tipping. Figuring out 20% I can really do in my head, though.

These customers of yours are stupid and/or don't care.

[muses_nightmare]

I know for myself, I can do simple math like adding a $2.00 tip to a bill and such. But figuring out what 20% of a bill is in my head is something I just can't do. I've forced myself to try, and it hasn't gotten any better. I've always had a hard time with math, but I always at least tried to work my way through it, being a dealer (cards) helped a lot, having to add quickly and in my head. I did have problems with some of the bigger payouts at times, it annoyed me to no end when my supe wouldn't just tell me the answer, because me having to work it through in my head took longer and made players annoyed. This doesn't make me stupid, it makes me not good at math.

I'm more concerned about the reading level of the younger generation. I mean half the teenagers I meet openly say they don't read books if they aren't for school. I mean what is that? Do they like having the vocabulary of a turnip?

[Exaspera]

Muses, depending on the sales tax, you can always double it and add some.

Or just figure 10% and double that. I don't have a math mind by any means, but I used to could do enough to run my framing business. It was a drag to eat a frame job.

I also agree about reading and writing levels. I thought the Harry Potter books were great from the standpoint that they made kiddos want to read!

[muses_nightmare]

if I double the tax here I'll be tipping I think 24% (our sales tax is now 12%, damn HST!), I don't even know if I can do 10% in my head, it's been explained to me lots of different ways, and I'll remember for awhile but it just falls out of my brain for some reason. :P

Yeah I remember being in grade 7 when the first one came out, I haven't really read all of them yet though, I've been meaning to for years now. People look at me strange when I say that my favorite book is White Fang, and I first read it in grade 4. *sigh*

[Stormraven]

I can still do most basic math calculations in my head. Of course, when I was in school, calculators weren't allowed in tests - that'll give you an idea how old I am.

Mind, I use a calculator when I can, for accuracy and speed, but I don't have any particular trouble with the basic processes.

As for reading, I've been doing that since I was about 2½. Read Dune at age 12, and just kept going from there.

[Exaspera]

I feel old, too! I was in college when calculators came out. My roomies paid $150 for the ones that did square roots. This was early 70s $$$!!

[Adoyle90815]

Even in the early 90's, calculators were banned from the SAT and ACT exams, so many math teachers banned them on their own tests as well.

[infinitemonkies]

I think the biggest failure of the education system is literacy.
Everyday, it seems, I have to deal with a growing number of people who are not merely functionally or completely illiterate, but PROUD of it as well.

A little while ago, I brought a woman I'd seen a few times back to my place. The same one I'd mentioned is a CS thread who said that 'everyone needs television." I have a significant library I've built up over the years, and upon seeing it she mentioned she has never read a book in her life. And she said it as though this was a major accomplishment that everyone should strive for.

How many industrialized countries in the world have a declining literacy rate? Anyone else notice in the last few years pretty much no fast food place has a menu anymore, they have pictures of everything instead?

I believe the greatest crime you can commit against a child is to not instill within them a love of reading.

[Hobbs]

My sister was learning Algebra etc. in third grade. And even took higher-level math courses when she was in school. So I don't see how the "system" is failing, at least, not in my town.

Calculators were banned? I remember using a calculator on my SATs.

[Exaspera]

Calculators were banned? I remember using a calculator on my SATs.

When they first came out, there was great controversy as to whether it would be cheating if calculators would be allowed to be used at exams. It got swatted down fairly quickly though, as slide rules were allowed and worked the same way. I'm surprised at hearing them banned somewhere in the 90s though!

At our school, cell phones are banned at the exam center, though.

[Racket_Man]

I think the biggest failure of the education system is literacy.
Everyday, it seems, I have to deal with a growing number of people who are not merely functionally or completely illiterate, but PROUD of it as well.

A little while ago, I brought a woman I'd seen a few times back to my place. The same one I'd mentioned is a CS thread who said that 'everyone needs television." I have a significant library I've built up over the years, and upon seeing it she mentioned she has never read a book in her life. And she said it as though this was a major accomplishment that everyone should strive for.

How many industrialized countries in the world have a declining literacy rate? Anyone else notice in the last few years pretty much no fast food place has a menu anymore, they have pictures of everything instead?

I believe the greatest crime you can commit against a child is to not instill within them a love of reading.

my fear is the really the overall education that is being put forth these days. all of the fancy names they give basic classes, the medicore or dumbed down push them through the system mentality

So I don't see how the "system" is failing, at least, not in my town.

Calculators were banned? I remember using a calculator on my SATs.

back in my day (the late 70's) calculators were banned (even then they cost upward of $60 for even basic models) for all college entry type tests. I guess they wanted us to actually use our brains. even when I got to college in that time period (and a little later) you COULD use a calculator BUT you were STILL required to show ALL of your work in DETAIL on the test paper.

When I did college 10 years later there were such things as programmable calculators (yes I did splurge on one for use in several classes) but on homework and tests you STILL had to show your work in detail esp statistics (all levels), logicsits, and the like.

maybe the system is not failing in your particular area but I know of several major metro areas that fail BIG time. too many school systems are fearful of little Jane's parents suing them for actaully telling them (the parents) that Jane is not passing her classes (for various reasons ie.slacker, just do not care, mental problem, drug (legal or illegal) or booze use or just the general message of the parent that school is just a waste to time)

and to the person who lementted that most fast food places these days have big food pictures and tiny prices, pictures of food on the registers and register computed coin change. if I remember correctly Sinbad the comedian did a 5 minute routine on this very subject like 15 or 20 years ago so the "problem" is not new.

found it -----> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO8oSbfbL-Q

[jackfaire]

I went to school through the mid 80s to late 90s at public school. Calculator policy was a matter of discretion to the teachers. simple and I mean adding 2$ to something I can do in my head but add in change being added to change and I have to write it down and most of my math teachers insisted we do math in our heads.

I suck at doing math in my head I have to write it out. That being said one of the reasons I saw literacy rates falling when I was a kid was because kids weren't allowed to read books they thought were interesting but were forced to read the same book everyone else in class was reading regardless of if it was a topic they gave a shit about.

In classes where someone told an athlete, sure you can read a book about your favorite sports hero, vocabulary would go up and the person would be more excited about reading.

If I had been forced to read the "classics" I would have hated reading as well. I have known people that hated reading for the longest time because their teacher believed anything written after the start of the 20th century to be crap who discovered Sci Fi/Fantasy and became reading fanatics.

Many adults are discovering reading for the first time as a fun past time because suddenly they are being pointed to books that fit what they are interested in instead of books they could care less about.

[AdminAssistant]

I have to use a calculator to do any kind of math....I'm just not good with numbers. I got through high school math classes and my required college algebra with A's, but after that....I stopped caring.

ETA: I'm going to start a new thread to discuss the second part of jackfaire's post.