Karma came back?

[Amina516]

Just thought Id post this:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_c...9_tragedy.html

The EMT who last year "ignored" a pregnant, dying womans plea inside a restaurant b/c he was on break...was gunned down outside a nightclub.

Some of my FB friends were saying he got what he deserved. IDK . Karmas a bitch, but do anyones action condone further violence outside of the justice system? Im mixed on this one.

[Fashion Lad!]

I don't think Karma has anything to do with our justice system as we know it. But what goes around comes around. I'm a huge believer in Karma.

"I am the owner of my karma .
I inherit my karma.
I am born of my karma.
I am related to my karma.
I live supported by my karma.
Whatever karma I create, whether good or evil, that I shall inherit."
The Buddha, Anguttara Nikaya V.57 - Upajjhatthana Sutta

However at the same time, I do not like the fact that he was gunned down and killed.

[Greenday]

Something told me when I replied to the thread on CS it would get closed by day's end.

Is it right that he left the original incident? He was off-duty, he had no equipment. What was he supposed to do? Pull out a wand and instantly heal her? I don't expect anyone else to do their job while off the clock and I know for a fact most people on CS would never work off the clock even if someone claimed an emergency.

As for karma...this isn't karma. This is cold-blooded murder. A despicable act. And anyone who thinks this was a good thing is a scumbag.

[Hyena Dandy]

I don't believe that murder is ever justified. He did a terrible thing, but one bad turn doesn't deserve another.

I do believe that some people deserve to die. But those people have to repeatedly prove over a long period of time that they deserve it.

He did one thing, a terrible thing, but he only did it once. He may have deserved punishment, but not death.

[joe hx]

He had negative karma, and now the person who gunned him down has that negative karma. The gunman became what he intended to destroy, if not worse.

[Arcade Man D]

Some of my FB friends were saying he got what he deserved. IDK . Karmas a bitch, but do anyones action condone further violence outside of the justice system? Im mixed on this one.

I don't think he had negative karma at all. In today's litigious society, no off-duty EMT would help someone if the state they were in didn't have laws to protect him.

As explained by my friend who is an Army National Guard Medic, anyone with medical training beyond first aid/CPR certification (EMTs, Medics, Nurses, Doctors, etc.) is not covered by most Good Samaritan laws. In turn, they are protected while giving first aid while working. If that EMT had given first aid and, say, broken a rib doing CPR (which happens when you do it right), he could have been sued. And there's no guarantee the person/family wouldn't have.

As much as it sucks, he was right in the initial case to cover his own ass, and that's a huge indictment of litigiousness.

[draggar]

Is it right that he left the original incident? He was off-duty, he had no equipment. What was he supposed to do? Pull out a wand and instantly heal her? I don't expect anyone else to do their job while off the clock and I know for a fact most people on CS would never work off the clock even if someone claimed an emergency.

Many of the reports I read at the time said he was on a break from his EMT duties, it wasn't like he was out on the town with friends. You can't compare the average person here or on CS with this. If I'm on break, oh boy, someone can't print for a couple of minutes. Someone else - a customer has to wait an extra minute in line. Most of us don't deal with life and death situations and even more aren't in a job to help people in those situations.

Also, medical professionals have this little thing called the hippoctatic oath.

This wasn't karmna but I would not be surprised if it was related - even if the gunman wasn't related to the initial victim.

Karma would call for him losing his job, etc.. not being killed.

[kibbles]

As for karma...this isn't karma. This is cold-blooded murder. A despicable act. And anyone who thinks this was a good thing is a scumbag.

I agree with this 100% And yes it was mentioned that an EMT taking a break is not the same as some other employee taking a break, I agree it's totally different but not in the way most are thinking. While a clerk at a grocery store could help a customer on a break without any personal repercussions, an EMT could be sued for performing his duties while on break.

Despite all the "people" who believe he got what he deserved, I don't believe that and I think his actions were right in the original incident.

[Amina516]

As explained by my friend who is an Army National Guard Medic, anyone with medical training beyond first aid/CPR certification (EMTs, Medics, Nurses, Doctors, etc.) is not covered by most Good Samaritan laws. In turn, they are protected while giving first aid while working. If that EMT had given first aid and, say, broken a rib doing CPR (which happens when you do it right), he could have been sued. And there's no guarantee the person/family wouldn't have.

Not true. I, as a Registered Nurse am protected by law if I CHOOSE to stop and help someone in an emergency. As long as Im not out there attempting to do something ive never been trained to do or have no knowledge of, I can not be legally liable. And that includes breaking a rib during CPR..i cant be held liable for it in an emergency situation, if im trying to help and I have the proper training (which I does..).

Good samaritan laws often don't apply to a person rendering emergency care, advice, or assistance during the course or regular employment, such as services rendered by a health care provider to a patient in a health care facility.

Under the good samaritan laws which grant immunity, if the good samaritan makes an error while rendering emergency medical care, he or she cannot be held legally liable for damages in court. However, two conditions usually must be met; 1) the aid must be given at the scene of the emergency, and. 2) if the "volunteer" has other motives, such as the hope of being paid a fee or reward, then the law will not apply.

http://definitions.uslegal.com/g/good-samaritans/

This guy wasnt in street clothes, he was on break from his EMT job, in the middle of his shift. While he may not have had his equipment with him, it was RIGHT freaking outside ( i think). Also, he and his partner were suspended without pay for a month, so I think his organization saw something wrong with that, though it may have just happened due to public outcry.

I think it was a shame that he died the way he did. And I have to agree with Draggar.....the lady wasnt asking to be checked out or looking for an item on a shelf. She was actively dying and being ignored by a worker off the clock resulted in her death and that of her unborn child.

[BlaqueKatt]

the lady wasnt asking to be checked out or looking for an item on a shelf. She was actively dying and being ignored by a worker off the clock resulted in her death and that of her unborn child.

from what I remember the woman had undergone no prenatal care and the seizure was due to eclamsia-nothing he could've done-remember only thing to stop/treat that is to deliver the baby-should he have performed a c-section untrained while in a restaurant?

Her death was not caused by the EMT-it was caused by her own decision to not obtain pre-natal care* that would have found and treated her for pre eclampsia before it became eclampsia and death.


*yes it was a decision that she made-can't afford it doesn't cut it-planned parenthood offers prenatal care, and most states have medical assistance for pregnant women...plus if she couldn't afford prenatal care how could she possibly hope to afford the baby?

[Greenday]

Also, he and his partner were suspended without pay for a month, so I think his organization saw something wrong with that, though it may have just happened due to public outcry.

You correctly answered your own question.

from what I remember the woman had undergone no prenatal care and the seizure was due to eclamsia-nothing he could've done-remember only thing to stop/treat that is to deliver the baby-should he have performed a c-section untrained while in a restaurant?

While I'm not sure exactly what it was that caused her death, I do clearly remember it was something he had zero way of stopping. Unless, as I mentioned before he pulled a wand out of his ass, there was nothing he could do.

[Amina516]

You correctly answered your own question.

I didnt actually ask one, but thank you. I dont think they suspended him soley on the fact that the public was pissed, but it certainly fueled their actions.

While I'm not sure exactly what it was that caused her death, I do clearly remember it was something he had zero way of stopping. Unless, as I mentioned before he pulled a wand out of his ass, there was nothing he could do.

This argument is rendered moot by the fact that he didnt even TRY to find out what WAS wrong with her. There was nothing he could do, but he didnt know that. He chose to ignore her. Taking a simple blood pressure would have clued him in to the problem. Im betting there was one in the vehicle outside, but i sure he was thinking of he took her BP, his lunch would be cold.

[Akasa]

I'm going to play devil's advocate on the side of the EMT here. Simply because I have done that job and found myself lacking.

Suppose the last call the EMT went on was a really hard call. Suppose it had do with deaths, severe injuries to children, lots of gore, etc. Suppose for his mental well being he had to do something resembling normal like sit down and have a meal, or else he'd crack, and here's someone demanding his time. No call has been made, he's on break. Let someone else call it in, let me get a breather.

Its easy to burn out as an EMT or Paramedic. Their jobs are not easy, and they have to work multiple jobs to make ends meet.

[KitterCat]

I’m going to back Amina on this. My husband is still a nationally registered EMT. He has let his state license laps due to moving and changing career paths - still in medical field, just not doing as much lifting. I digress. Even if you are not working for a company, you are still required to stop at a medical emergency and render aid. You surrender the scene to the next medically trained on duty person. If it is found that you have passed an accident without rendering aid you can have your certificate/license pulled.

This idiot EMT didn’t even try to render aid. He simply ignored her. He should have had his certificate pulled, since he obviously didn’t care about even making the attempt to save a life.

While her seizure was not treated and not found out about during the pregnancy is mott. The fact that he didn’t bother to try and find out what the problem was the issue, not the lady’s lack of medical care.

As for him being gunned down. One could argue that karma killed him since he aided in the death of killing 2 people. The other EMT, Melisa Jackson might want to think about getting some good karma to her name before something similar happens to her. Yes its slightly Machiavellian of me, but at times I like Machiavelli.

[kibbles]

I think the only one that aided in the death of the woman and her child was the woman herself who didn't think enough of her or her child's life to have herself properly checked.