Karma came back?

[Amina516]

I think the only one that aided in the death of the woman and her child was the woman herself who didn't think enough of her or her child's life to have herself properly checked.

Youre assuming she was able to get an appt or afford healthcare. For all we know, she could have been mentally disabled or extremely uneducated. There are women like that still out there..who dont understand how they got pregnant, dont know where to go and dont understand whats going on. If she was none of these things, then yes, she was the main culprit in her own death.

It still remains that the EMT had a moral obligation, if nothing else, to stop and help a woman clearly in distress.

[linguist]

I think the only one that aided in the death of the woman and her child was the woman herself who didn't think enough of her or her child's life to have herself properly checked.

way to judge without the facts.

while eclampsia was initially thought to be the cause of death, everything i've found since has said that autopsy determined that death was the result of an acute asthma attack.

eclampsia may not be treatable, but asthma most certainly is.

as far as i'm concerned, while his death is a sad affair and i feel for his family, the emt was a pretty poor excuse for a human being. in my view, decent human beings have a moral and an ethical obligation to render aid, and trained medical professionals doubly so. to not even attempt to evaluate the situation (something you don't necessarily need equipment for) was a pretty reprehensible act.

[kibbles]

I just don't think it's right for all the responsibility be taken off the woman and put on someone else. And in today's sue happy world I do not think the emt is a poor excuse for a human being, and even though it is sad to say he done what most would do and I don't blame him one bit.

[linguist]

I just don't think it's right for all the responsibility be taken off the woman and put on someone else.

because she was supposed to have predicted she'd have an asthma attack?

[kibbles]

because she was supposed to have predicted she'd have an asthma attack?

And an EMT without proper equipment was supposed to be able to do anything? I am not saying she could predict anything, but I also do not believe the off duty EMT held any responsibility IMO.

As stated before, no one knew the state of mind of the EMT or what case he just came off but it is assumed that it's his fault. JMO.

[linguist]

And an EMT without proper equipment was supposed to be able to do anything?

takes no time or equipment to simply put a patient having an attack in a sitting position, which often helps open airways. also takes no equipment to ask someone to look through her things (assuming she's not able to speak for herself) to find her rescue inhaler or, barring that, to ask the other patrons of the shop if they happen to have one. he was told by one of her co-workers that she had asthma and couldn't breathe, according to several reports i read. instead he chose to do nothing.

as for his state of mind or previous calls, or even whether off duty, it doesn't matter. when he accepted the job, he took an oath, either implicit or explicit, to do everything in his power to protect human life. he failed to uphold that oath and caused the death of two people.

[Greenday]

takes no time or equipment to simply put a patient having an attack in a sitting position, which often helps open airways. also takes no equipment to ask someone to look through her things (assuming she's not able to speak for herself) to find her rescue inhaler or, barring that, to ask the other patrons of the shop if they happen to have one. he was told by one of her co-workers that she had asthma and couldn't breathe, according to several reports i read. instead he chose to do nothing.

If it was just an asthma attack, people there would have known what it is. They aren't uncommon and I'm pretty sure most people recognize them. They know you take an inhaler for it. So by theory, maybe everyone at the scene should die too since they all didn't do anything.

[BlaqueKatt]

This argument is rendered moot by the fact that he didnt even TRY to find out what WAS wrong with her. There was nothing he could do, but he didnt know that. He chose to ignore her. Taking a simple blood pressure would have clued him in to the problem. Im betting there was one in the vehicle outside, but i sure he was thinking of he took her BP, his lunch would be cold.

see and everyone forgets they were DISPATCHERS and not in an ambulance-they worked in an office upstairs from the coffee shop according to this article

"The emergency medical technicians accused of refusing to help a dying pregnant woman were never asked to examine her or told the extent of her condition"

""protocol, training and regulations" also kept the two emergency workers from intervening further because they didn't have any equipment or medications and worked as dispatchers rather than in the field."


and whoops-
"Veteran dispatcher Dionne McKoy was in the Au Bon Pain coffee shop in the heart of FDNY headquarters Dec. 9 around 8 a.m. -- about an hour before Rennix's condition suddenly deteriorated -- and saw that the pregnant 25-year-old didn't look well.

She urged Rennix to let her call an ambulance, sources said.

But Rennix, six months pregnant and with a 3-year-old boy at home, said she didn't want to miss work, according to sources. She refused McKoy's offer of aid."

and I'd like to point out the ambulance arrived 11 minutes after they left and with no equipment-little field experience*(remember they were DISPATCHERS)-what exactly were they supposed to do in that 11 minutes? Poke her with a pencil? The departmental investigation cleared them of any wrongdoing and the DAs criminal investigation proved the same thing-they followed protocol, procedures, and regulations-she died two hours later at the hospital-under medical care-how could two people with little training and no equipment have done more than a dozen doctors with all the equipment in a hospital-have changed the outcome?



*one of them had a whopping 4 months in the field-5 years prior

[kibbles]

Thanks for the further explanation BlaqueKatt! The article explains things better than I ever could and really shows how limited they were in what they were able to do.

[insertNameHere]

I don't think it is really karma as BlaqueKatt points out about their lack of training and the fact that I really think if an EMT knows what to do they will do it as second nature rather than "call someone who cares"

It really just maters on who writes the article, our local police department executed an eldery minority who was in assisted living (or something of that nature). Sound tragic doesn't it? Doesn't even mention how mentally unstable the woman was, or the fact she has a pair of scissors and was charging an officer and the attempt to tazer her failed.

Our local media especially the paper likes to slam the police any chance they can get because it sells papers. Oh, and when a cop stops a vehicle and the passenger opens fire and one of the bullets lands in the head rest previously occupied by said officer who was ducking at that point. They say something about him being detained for shooting at a police car. Ignoring the fact that it was occupied.

I'm pretty sure you could find articles that say it was racial motivated even when from the picture of Green you can see he is also African-American.


In the end it all comes down to the fact that people love to sue for the stupidest reasons in America, hell I can break into my neighbors house and sue them if I get bit by their pitbull, and if I had the right lawyer I could win too.

[Amina516]

I don't think I knew they were dispatchers (or I forgot since the 1st article). The articles say EMTs and i automatically think "ambulance workers". That just blows all my arguments to bits....

If that's the case, how did the people in the restaurant even know they were dispatchers? I would imagine theyd be in business casual clothing if they worked in an office upstairs.

[Greenday]

If that's the case, how did the people in the restaurant even know they were dispatchers? I would imagine theyd be in business casual clothing if they worked in an office upstairs.

They might be known as regulars there.

They might have to wear uniforms anyway.

Who knows?