Where it is appropriate to go SC on employees.

[smileyeagle1021]

If you work at Target, right now, I'm sorry if you think it's just a job, but you work for a company that just gave a six figure donation to an organization that advocates violence and even death against homosexuals. You deserve every bit of hatred you are about to receive in the coming weeks for helping to earn that company the money to donate. I don't give a shit if you are just doing a job and that's all you can do, that defense hasn't gotten people off of war crimes and it sure as hell won't help you.
And yes, I am proud to have already gone SC on some of Target's guest relations crew, and I intend to do so more. If we can jam their phone lines and email inboxes and hopefully cost them money for this act of hatred all the better.
Work for Target, right now you have two choices, continue to support this blatant bigotry, or quit... I don't give a fuck which you do, but if it's the first, don't expect my sympathy when your treated like you deserve.

And before you get on my case, yes, if the company I worked for advocated violence, be it against any group, I would quit without a second thought. No job is worth sacrificing my morals and integrity and being responsible for earning the money that is used to fund the advocacy of violence. I expect no more from the employees of Target, or I expect that they support this agenda, because this isn't a small matter of "I don't agree with my company's view of domestic partner benefits, but otherwise they are a decent company" this is a matter of THE COMPANY JUST FUCKING ADVOCATED KILLING PEOPLE BASED ON THEIR ORIENTATION.

[Hobbs]

It'd be nice if you linked a story instead of just going off on another militant rant.

I can't believe how obtuse you're being. Some people don't have the luxury to quit their jobs. Is the LGBT community going to give them money until they find a job? No? How does working for Target automatically make you a supporter of anti-gay rights? The simple fact is, it doesn't. Also, I think being a jerk to people who's only fault is that they work for Target makes you nothing more of an intolerant jerk.

[kibbles]

So if an employee of Target serves you with a friendly attitude and is knowledgeable in their job, then you still go SC on them?

[MaggieTheCat]

What organization did they donate to? Do you have an article or some form of reference?

[joe hx]

For people (like me) who are a bit confused about what smiley's talking about, Target donated $150,000 to an extremely anti-gay political action committee known as Minnesota Forward. This group is supporting this year's republican candidate for Minnesota governor Tom Emmer. Target donated this money **hopefully** because they share Mr. Emmer's economic stance - pro business, anti union and whatnot.

What really comes into question is yet another group that is closely tied with Mr. Emmer: You Can Run But You Cannot Hide. From what I can gather, they are a Christian music group that is often tied with advocating the violence and murder that has smiley so riled up. The groups leader Bradlee Dean ("CEO and President") denies this. He claims that the liberal media (specifically Mr. Andy Birkey of the Minnesota Independent) misquoted him when he was contrasting Islam's and Christian's view of homosexuality. In my quick internet search, I could not find any anecdotal evidence of Mr. Dean advocating violence against homosexuals - perhaps someone could provide some?

All this is interesting considering that Target itself does not discriminate against homosexuals - at least in policy. According to wikipedia, "[Target] has long extended domestic-partner benefits to straight, gay, and lesbian employees." and the Target's website says it has four different business councils to help minorities - and one of those business councils is the "GLBT Business Council."

Of course, maybe I'm wrong and smiley's talking about something else.

sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Target_...n#Philanthropy
http://gayrights.change.org/petition...ay_politicians
http://gayrights.change.org/blog/vie...i-gay_politics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Emmer
http://youcanruninternational.com/ne...sexuality.html
http://sites.target.com/site/en/comp...=WCMP04-031762

[Stormraven]

I found this via Google.

[Rageaholic]

What organization did they donate to? Do you have an article or some form of reference?

That's what I wanna know.

I don't agree with guilt by association. It's one thing to tell a pushy salesperson to get lost, since they are actually doing sucky things by not taking no for an answer. It's another to go apeshit on the employees who had no say in what upper management decided. They aren't the ones who are in the wrong, it's the upper management and even more so, the people who they donated to. Hell, they may not even be aware of what's going on.

There's got to be more effective ways of getting the point across.

[ExRetailDrone]

I used to be an employee of said company, and I would be pissed if someone came in acting like an asshole because they didn't like what the corporate dicks decided to do with the profits they don't like sharing with their workers. The people anyone comes across in a store setting has no say whatsoever in what the corporation as a whole does. If one person quits, it won't matter, those jobs are easy to fill. And in these economic times, not everyone can just up and quit because they don't agree with actions of corporate. If that were the case, no one on the CS boards would have jobs.

I can understand your outrage, and I do not agree with this partnership if this guy they are supporting is involved in heinous acts against homosexuals. But the lowly peons are not to blame. Many of them probably don't even know that this has happened. Most of the people I worked with were so sick of being fucked over by management and corporate that having to deal with sucky asshole cuss-tomers because of corporate choices basically means that they are getting fucked over twice as much by corporate from different angles. If they provide good service, they don't deserve such treatment.

[AdminAssistant]

The employees aren't to blame, and as others have said, many people can't just up and quit a job. I'm not happy about this, but I already boycott Wal-Mart for my own reasons, and I gotta buy my crap somewhere.

[guywithashovel]

I'm with ExRetailDrone. I used to work at Wal-Mart, and I often had to listen to crap from pushy, simpering SCs because of decisions that the corporate fatcats made. Like that one time Wal-Mart decided not to do the "take a kid fishing" thing. It was a crappy thing to do, but I had nothing to do with that decision. I can certainly understand being outraged, but direct your anger towards the people who actually deserve it (i.e. the ones who made the decision).

Yes, Target employees could just up and quit, theoretically. However, they do have bills to pay, families to take care of, and so on. They need to take that into consideration. You can't blame someone for not wanting to suddenly quit their jobs because of some stupid, bigoted decision the higher-ups made, especially not in this economic climate.

Smiley, I think you need to reevaluate your priorities. And I'm sure this is going to get me yelled at, but is your attitude really reflecting well on the LGBT community?

[Jack]

I think the best you can do for everyone in this situation is to not give Target your money. Harassing their frontline employees doesn't really do anything but stress them out over something they may not even have heard of. I'm gay myself so I can understand the anger and desire to act, but the best action here is inaction.

I also see how you got the idea that employees support the company's actions by earning it money, but I don't think this is comparable to obeying an unlawful order and then trying to defend it like at Nuremberg. If it were, you might well blame everyone participating in an economy for supporting the war crimes of their government.

[guywithashovel]

I really don't mean to harp on this, but I have to say a few more things.

I don't know of any Target employees here on the forum, but I'm sure there are a few, considering the company's size and the fact that this is a subforum for a customer service forum. It's really mean of you to spew this kind of venom at these people, especially considering how supportive this forum is of the LGBT community. Heck, every time the subject of gay rights comes up, this forum is practically universally in support. Even the participants who lean to the right of the political spectrum usually support you guys. Is this any way to treat your friends?

I'm sure you go through a lot of grief for being who you are, and I think that really sucks. Every. single. time. I hear about an effort to legitimize gay marriage fail, I die a little inside. I'm still grieving over Prop 8 being passed, and during this past election, when a similar effort failed in Maine, I felt the same. Yet, if I worked at Target, you would be standing in line to treat me like an enemy. Please think about that.

[smileyeagle1021]

My attitude, guilt by association does happen, a front line employee, whether intentionally or not, has helped to fund a group advocating my death. They deserve what they get. If I were to kill someone in a car crash, I may have no intention of killing them, but that does change my guilt or involvement in the outcome.
Besides, on a larger scale, by me wasting their guest relations department's time, those employees can't be doing things that earn the company money to spread their hatred and bigotry (yeah, they had us fooled with their pro-gay policies, but now we see their true colors).
Every MINUTE I keep an employee from earning that company money is a minute of profit they can't use.
Every person I get to stop shopping there is a person's profit that they can't use for their hate.
Personally, I will shop at Target again when every employee involved with this debacle is living on the street, not just fired, but made permanently unhirable. Let them ROT for this crime. For too long I have been the punching bag of this nation, NO FUCKING LONGER.

[BlaqueKatt]

what I find interesting is that whenever anyone anywhere does something discriminatory against the LGBT community, even though it has no effect on you personally, in this case being as the donation was made in Minnesota to a Minnesota political candidate-thus not affecting you in any way in Utah*-you post that it's ok to "go SC on people" , but if anyone does something nice or good for the LGBT community it's "well that doesn't affect me as I live in Utah"

One or the other-or talk to my friend Ken, he knows how to advocate for the LGBT community without getting vicious, using personal attacks, or alienating people-and he served in the military. I'm proud to stand by him as a friend and help him fight, someone that flys into a raeg at anything...not so much.


*not saying it is in any way right-if that is why they donated the money, and not because of his other political stances.

I don't know of any Target employees here on the forum, but I'm sure there are a few, considering the company's size and the fact that this is a subforum for a customer service forum. It's really mean of you to spew this kind of venom at these people, especially considering how supportive this forum is of the LGBT community. Heck, every time the subject of gay rights comes up, this forum is practically universally in support. Even the participants who lean to the right of the political spectrum usually support you guys. Is this any way to treat your friends?

well considering smiley considers all Republicans and Christians to be gay-bashing homophobes that would just as soon kill a gay person as look at them(even though it has been pointed out more times than I can count that simply isn't true)-he doesn't seem to care if he offends or upsets anyone as long as he's not offended....

[ExRetailDrone]

Personally, I will shop at Target again when every employee involved with this debacle is living on the street, not just fired, but made permanently unhirable. Let them ROT for this crime. For too long I have been the punching bag of this nation, NO FUCKING LONGER.

By this, it makes it sound like you want every single current employee of Target to be homeless, penniless, and never able to get a job again. You are talking about thousands or tens of thousands of people, 99% of them who have nothing whatsoever to do with the decisions the corporate heads are making. They're with Target because they need to have a job to make money to support themselves and perhaps their families, just like most of us are doing in the jobs we loathe dealing with customers who don't give a damn. To put it bluntly, to treat somebody with such loathing based on something they had no control over rings similar to haters treating homosexuals or minorities with loathing based on things those groups have no control over. Your real beef should be with the corporate dickholes and those are the people you should be trying to contact with your concerns and objections. Calling up a local Target store and berating their operator will do absolutely nothing other than make you into the bad guy for those people who are unfortunate enough to have had to answer phones that day. They can't change anything that you have issue with, they really just don't have that kind of power. And if they're tied up on the phone with you, people will be going through the lines purchasing things just the same.

I hope that you can calm down a little bit and try to see this a bit more rationally.