Where it is appropriate to go SC on employees.

[KnitShoni]

So, what your family will think of you if you don't graduate within a certain timeframe is worth more to you than your life? Its worth more to your family than having you alive and safe and happy?

[smileyeagle1021]

Of course my safety and happiness is important to them, but in nearly a century, I will be the first who hasn't gotten at least a bachellores by the time I'm 25. My grandma's will included instructions that her children were to make sure that her grandchildren all got degrees. You will never know my shame in being at her funeral and knowing that she died knowing that each of her grandchildren except me was already well on their way to being finished and I was still dicking around. The only thing she expected of any of us was to never stop improving ourselves, and she died seeing that I couldn't even meet that one expectation. I let her down once, there is no way in hell I am going to do that again.

eta-

With that said, Smiley, have you sought help or tried to speak to a therapist that specializes in dealing with hate crimes and/or discrimination? I understand that being where you are it is difficult to find one that is not trying to "save" you or "make you straight".

what exactly is a therapist going to be able to do for me?
Inform me just how fucked up I am? I already know that, I'm informed of that on a regular basis.
I don't have the money to pay a professional to tell me what I already know.

[Ree]

I totally understand your reasons for staying in a place you hate smiley.

I guess I'm just thinking, since you aren't able to get the hell out of Dodge, then please just stop whining about it.

It would be kind of like me, if I was bitching all the time about my current work environment.
It's easy to say that I should just quit, but the fact is, at my age, and having put in almost a quarter of a century at this employer, there just are not that many jobs out there.

So, I am sort of stuck where I am with an eye out constantly for a better road, but just making the best of the one I'm on.

That's kind of why I stopped public posting about my job on CS.

I feel if I'm not going to change my situation, then why waste energy bitching?

I realize it's not 100% the same, but I think you know what I'm trying to say.

When you first started posting about your situation, I think we all felt your pain. (We still do.)
The problem was, you were getting some really good advice and lots of understanding and sympathy and prayers, from some really great people.

In the time since, however, you have become increasingly bitter and angry, and so full of hate. You have publicly posted some very generalized and nasty comments about some of the religious or political groups that those same people belong to, spewing venom and acid all over and announcing your hatred for all who are affiliated with those groups.

What a slap in the face to some very kind and sympathetic people! (Me included, thank you very much.)
So, if it seems all you are getting from us anymore is more of the same useless advice, or a lack of sympathy for your situation, deal with it.

You brought it on yourself.

I would like to think you are about more than just being a gay male, but that is all anyone hears from you.
I've never met you.
Perhaps you present yourself as a stereotypical and flamboyant gay man, but I really have to wonder, other than the fact that you may mention your boyfriend, or be seen in public with him, why is it that someone who has just met you has developed a sudden intense hatred of you because of your sexuality if you don't mention it?

See, this is what I really don't get.

I meet someone either online or in person. We talk. We part ways. Not once in that conversation has my sexual orientation become a topic of conversation.
On the other hand, I have met so many GLBT people, (usually online) and within moments of meeting them, I am informed of their sexual orientation as if that is a very important factor in the conversation, and makes a huge difference on the state of our online interaction.

I am not saying they should be ashamed of their sexuality and hide it away. I just don't really see why their sexual preferences becomes such a big deal.

I really like to think that people are about a lot more than who they choose to sleep with.

[Mongo Skruddgemire]

My attitude, guilt by association does happen, a front line employee, whether intentionally or not, has helped to fund a group advocating my death. They deserve what they get. If I were to kill someone in a car crash, I may have no intention of killing them, but that does change my guilt or involvement in the outcome.

Yes, but then you are the driver of the car. In a sense, you are the CEO of the car. If that scenario were to happen, would it be the fault of your passengers for the crash? Is it their fault that a person was killed?

Is it the fault of the person who is taking whatever jobs are available in this economy to support and feed his or her family?

Besides, on a larger scale, by me wasting their guest relations department's time, those employees can't be doing things that earn the company money to spread their hatred and bigotry (yeah, they had us fooled with their pro-gay policies, but now we see their true colors).
Every MINUTE I keep an employee from earning that company money is a minute of profit they can't use.

Here is where I disagree with you. You are talking about coming out of the blue and yelling at some poor schlub whose only "crime" is trying not to starve to death huddled under an underpass about something that they likely have not a clue in hell is going on?

First of all, from Customers Suck's website...you should by now be aware that the first reaction of the people who work in retail when confronted by a screaming and yelling person is to close their mind and just do whatever they can to get rid of the person. Or in some cases, a screaming attack by an abusive SC will cause the victim of the wrath to cry and need to take some time to get themselves under control. Some report that they are still shaking while typing the stories hours later.

Would it not be better to calmly explain, perhaps by creating a pamphlet or some literature explaining the situation, the situation to those who are unaware of what is going on at the upper echelons of the company they work for?

Every person I get to stop shopping there is a person's profit that they can't use for their hate.

And you would be at least as effective doing that by being calm as by being an SC. Possibly even more so.

Personally, I will shop at Target again when every employee involved with this debacle is living on the street, not just fired, but made permanently unhirable. Let them ROT for this crime. For too long I have been the punching bag of this nation, NO FUCKING LONGER.

But here is where I have a massive problem with your approach. You are talking about the damage they are doing to the Homosexual community. What about the damage you would cause if you had your way and made everyone at target (and you have stated that you blame everyone) unhirable for the rest of their lives? You would cause families to lose one of (if not the only) income bringer forever. Now this may in your mind be poetic justice for the wealthy board members of Target, but what about the cashier working there because they lost their normal job in their field when the economy tanked? You know, the person barely holding onto a roof over their heads and food on the table. Are you really so willing to do harm to them and the family that depends on them?

I know that this is a hot issue for you, but do you honestly think that being as hateful and as hurtful as your enemy is going to help your cause in the end?

[smileyeagle1021]

Ree, I have to ask, when was the last time someone assumed you were a lesbian?
If you wear your wedding band most people will assume (correctly) that you are a married heterosexual woman, and will treat you appropriately.
And no, I really am not a flamboyant stereotype, that said, my orientation is part of my sense of humor, so it does come up (eg, someone says "that's terrible" and I'll respond "well, I'm already going to hell for kissing a boy, might as well add some more interesting offenses to the list"). I know a lot of gay people (and I'm somewhat guilty of it) will bring it up early on because we know so many people do have a problem with it, and we'd much rather find out if the person we're talking with is going to have a problem with it sooner rather than later.
And, with the exception of when I was 12 and it was because I didn't act manly enough, every time something has happened I have been with my boyfriend (or in my car which I will admit that I've gone a bit overboard on the bumper stickers, but I can't tell you how many cars I've seen go overboard with the Jesus stickers also).
As far as only talking about GLBT issues on fratching, which is not exactly true, though I will admit to it being a prevelant topic I debate on, this is a debate site. There isn't really much else that I am passionate about that is controversal. There isn't much debate to be had on the finer points of rebuilding computers, not much debate to be had of the validity of enjoying movies, not much debate to be had on whether or not I should make my next character in Dragon Age human or elven, not much debate to be had on whether or not my score on Bejeweled is better than my fiance's (it is by the way )... however, there is debate to be had on whether or not my fiance and I should legally be allowed to marry, there is debate on whether or not my orientation should be a protected status for employment, there is debate on whether or not I can be accepted within (insert faith here). While it is nowhere near all that I am, it is the part of me that is open to debate still (or at least the political aspects related)

And Mongo, you (and a lot of people on the board) are missing the part about INVOLVED, as in the people who make these decisions.

[Mongo Skruddgemire]

And Mongo, you (and a lot of people on the board) are missing the part about INVOLVED, as in the people who make these decisions.

Did I?

If you work at Target, right now, I'm sorry if you think it's just a job, but you work for a company that just gave a six figure donation to an organization that advocates violence and even death against homosexuals. You deserve every bit of hatred you are about to receive in the coming weeks for helping to earn that company the money to donate.

My attitude, guilt by association does happen, a front line employee, whether intentionally or not, has helped to fund a group advocating my death. They deserve what they get.

Sorry, I don't think I am missing the point of your original statement.

[KnitShoni]

Smiley, that was a long list of "buts" just to say that, yes, what your family thinks because you didn't graduate by a certain age is more important to you than your safety. I guess there's something wrong with me that I think that in order to improve yourself, you should be safe, content, and, you know, alive. Unless I'm wrong, and people wanting you dead is not as big a deal to you as you've made it out to be.

[Cassandra]

what exactly is a therapist going to be able to do for me?
Inform me just how fucked up I am? I already know that, I'm informed of that on a regular basis.
I don't have the money to pay a professional to tell me what I already know.

If you go to a good therapist/psychologist, you will not be ridiculed for being who you are. They will not tell you that you are fucked up. Homosexuality has not been listed as a mental disorder for a bit now. What they will do is help you work through your bitterness and hatred for all those who don't agree with what you are. They will be able to help you become constructive in your fight against anti-gay groups and help you place that anger in a better form.

Anger is the proper response to issues like this. I was angry when I read the information about Target. But instead of being angry at every employee of the company as you are, I became angry at the higher ups that thought it was okay to support such a hate filled and bigoted organization.

I only suggest these things because I feel that you are a very intelligent person who is comfortable with who they are, but seems to have slightly misplaced anger. Again, I am basing this solely on your posts here as I have never met you. I think that you would not get so many members upset on here if you took a few deep breaths and thought out what you want to say before posting. Your op sounded as if you read this information on Target, rightfully got pissed, then came right on here and posted while still hot about it. Now there is nothing wrong with this, but you should re-read before posting and think about how you might be interpreted.

I do think very highly of you for your choice and determination to finish your schooling regardless of the personal attacks you receive in your place of residence. As someone who obtained their Associates at the age of 27 and at the age of 29 is still trying to afford to go back for their Bachelors, I commend you for your efforts to get your degree as soon as you can. And I sincerely wish you much luck on this endeavor.

[Ladeeda]

Let's play a game, shall we?

"Personally, I will shop at Target again when every gay person involved with this debacle is living on the street, not just fired, but made permanently unhirable. Let them ROT for this crime."

"If you work at Target, right now, I'm sorry if you think it's just a job, but you work for a company that just gave a six figure donation to an organization that advocates homosexuality. You deserve every bit of hatred you are about to receive in the coming weeks for helping to earn that company the money to donate."

Frankly, you sound a lot like the wackos you're complaining about.

[Hobbs]

And Mongo, you (and a lot of people on the board) are missing the part about INVOLVED, as in the people who make these decisions.

Sorry, I don't think I am missing the point of your original statement.

As far as only talking about GLBT issues on fratching, which is not exactly true, though I will admit to it being a prevelant topic I debate on, this is a debate site. There isn't really much else that I am passionate about that is controversal.

Even in non-GLBT topics you bring it up. Ree is right. I think a majority of us are just plain sick of it.

[guywithashovel]

Well, for many of us, our sexualities are a big part of who we are. Even straight people will often casually mention their husband, girlfriend, wife, etc. in a conversation. Smiley's orientation is a big part of who he is as well. I'm sure if I got a bunch of static for being with a certain girl for whatever reason, I'd probably be inclined to talk about it quite a bit. Thing is, if I did get a lot of grief for being with someone or wanting to be with someone, I wouldn't blame those who aren't responsible for the situation.

[daleduke17]

Dale, 100% agree with you.

And now, hell has completely frozen over.

[Talon]

Smiley, aren't you the least bit concerned that your SC tactics only serve to engender more hostility towards the LGBT crowd?
Or have you already convinced yourself the decision of the Target higher-ups automatically makes all their employees homophobes?

[Ree]

Ree, I have to ask, when was the last time someone assumed you were a lesbian?

Why does it matter?

I am not all about who I sleep with.
I still fail to see why it's relevant in ordinary life to immediately pint out that one prefers to sleep with people of one's own gender.

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

Why does it matter?

I am not all about who I sleep with.
I still fail to see why it's relevant in ordinary life to immediately pint out that one prefers to sleep with people of one's own gender.

Also, smiley's earlier comment about the wedding ring is irrelevant too. If I'm not mistaken Ree, you, like me, are Canadian and same sex marriage is legal there so a wedding band would not be a "tell" as to one's sexual orientation.