Blind Couple gets child back

[Plaidman]

And no mention that she did.

Right. Because all soon to be parents refused to take any parenting class at all.

Let alone blind people who, years of experence will know they need extra training for things, especally babies.

But yeah. This new born mother is just that stupid to even THINK she might need some addition training.


Sorry. She took the classes. But it still takes practice. Your not an expert hand to hand combat just because you took one class.

[Red Panda]

You know she took the classes? Did you use your crystall ball to find this out? Can you tell me what the winning lotto numbers are going to be?

[lordlundar]

You know she took the classes?

By the same token, did the nurse know she took the classes before she wrote:

"The child is without proper custody, support or care due to both of (the) parents being blind, and they do not have specialized training to assist them."

Nope, she saw an issue, noted that they were blind and then declared that the child is in danger while under their care, without finding out for sure.

[KnitShoni]

You know she took the classes? Did you use your crystall ball to find this out? Can you tell me what the winning lotto numbers are going to be?

Well, since you apparently know she didn't take them, couldn't you use your own crystal ball and find out for yourself?

[Red Panda]

The nurse would be in a position to know not to mention the lady didn't know what she was doing. I don't generally think people who don't know what they are doing are trained to do that.

[KnitShoni]

Oh, good grief. No one "knows" what they're doing when they become a parent for the first time. All classes will do is give you an idea. They teach you the basics. That's it. If this woman not knowing what she was doing while in the hospital surrounded by the people who were paid to help teach her is reason enough to deprive her, her husband, and their child of time they will not get back, then the majority of mothers in the country should also have their kids taken away.

[Peppergirl]

You know she took the classes? Did you use your crystall ball to find this out? Can you tell me what the winning lotto numbers are going to be?

I'm confused..perhaps you can enlighten me.

It's okay when *you* make assumptions about what the woman did or didn't do before she had a baby, but when someone else assumes, it's a problem?

[Red Panda]

I'm saying something that is supported by evidence of a trained nurse. I'm just mirroring what she said. She was the one who witnessed the event, talked to them, and had access to their files. I think she acted like a human and did what she thought was needed. Other people think she is some sort of demon who evily declared that no blind people should have kids and called in a band of gypsies to kidnap the baby.

[KnitShoni]

I don't think she was evil. I think she didn't do her job.

[ExiledV20]

If an assumption means you observe something and use your training to report it then I guess thats what she did and what her job is.

The assumption that the nurse made is not one she was qualified to make. Such an observation should only be made a by Guardian Ad Litem appointed by a court at the behest of the state DFACS.

As it is, the court has determined that the SOLE reason the child was taken was because the parents were blind, that proper procedure was not followed, and that a civil rights violation occurred. A suit is being filed. The nurse will likely be sanctioned and could possibly lose her license, which would serve her right. Her comment was like overriding a brain surgeon on whether a tumor should be removed.

[Red Panda]

So you think the only person able to judge parent's abilities are guardians of the court? So if a teacher observes that a kid is starving and wearing rags she better not report it, she isn't qualified after all. All she can do apparently is try to teach the parent about proper nutrition and shopping. After all, don't want to hurt a person's feelings for a minor thing like protecting their child.

[ExiledV20]

So you think the only person able to judge parent's abilities are guardians of the court?

No, anyone who is actually trained in the science of social work and is qualified to perform observations would also be fit to judge.

A nurse isn't trained in that. A nurse is minor medical functionary. Her observations should be limited to her training, which is in the area of medicine, and in the case of this nurse, breast-feeding. She did not acquire information about whether there was sighted existence available at home or not. She did not inquire about remedies or procedures set up by the parents in case of emergency. She made an observation after a single breast-feeding session that NO QUALIFIED PERSONNEL would make unless there had been a 60-90 day evaluation. That opinion was above her pay grade. Secretaries don't make executive decisions like that.

So if a teacher observes that a kid is starving and wearing rags she better not report it, she isn't qualified after all. All she can do apparently is try to teach the parent about proper nutrition and shopping. After all, don't want to hurt a person's feelings for a minor thing like protecting their child.

No, now you're conflating mandatory reporting with full social observation. Apples and oranges. The teacher doesn't KNOW the kid is starving. The teacher has no information about home life. Therefore, the appropriate thing for the teacher to report is "Timmy appears to be hungry more often than and wears distressed clothing on a constant basis."

Then DFACS investigates and finds that Timmy's on ADHD medication and so his metabolism is ramped up 3x what would it would be normally. The doctor knows about it and supplies the appropriate vitamin supplements. Doesn't help Timmy being hungry all the time or being thin as a rail though. As for the rags, it appears Timmy is into the gutterpunk/grunge subculture and thus wears the rags voluntarily to show his status in the subculture. Case closed.

No need to take the kid away. The teacher does her job without overstepping her boundaries. And the teacher doesn't get hit with a civil rights violation, like the nurse is.

[Red Panda]

The nurse trained in breast feeding made an observation on breast feeding, which according to you is wrong because expers should only make observations in their field you agree with otherwise they are unqualified.

Even if the nurse's observation where out of line I don't think she pulled a gun on CPS. They decided she was credible enough to act on her word. How is she at fault if the experts agree with her?

The fact is the nurse was in the right but because the couple is disabled and went to the media they get support from the public and politicians who want to look good for a special interest group. If the couple brought the baby home because the nurse was too scared to upset the blind and they killed it through neglect they would be wailing that somebody should have helped them and the nurse would be in trouble for not reporting them, so really, she would be in the same place anyways. At least she was brave enough to think of the baby and not spare the feelings of the people who are suppose to be adults.

[KnitShoni]

The nurse trained in breast feeding made an observation on breast feeding, which according to you is wrong because expers should only make observations in their field you agree with otherwise they are unqualified.

Even if the nurse's observation where out of line I don't think she pulled a gun on CPS. They decided she was credible enough to act on her word. How is she at fault if the experts agree with her?

The fact is the nurse was in the right but because the couple is disabled and went to the media they get support from the public and politicians who want to look good for a special interest group. If the couple brought the baby home because the nurse was too scared to upset the blind and they killed it through neglect they would be wailing that somebody should have helped them and the nurse would be in trouble for not reporting them, so really, she would be in the same place anyways. At least she was brave enough to think of the baby and not spare the feelings of the people who are suppose to be adults.

Once again, this is not about sparing feelings. The nurse is trained in helping new mothers breastfeed. The scene she observed has, in fact, happened with mothers who have sight. It could have quite easily been corrected, by the nurse telling the mother what to feel for, as well as positioning. The article said the child turned blue. That was probably due to the mother's breast covering her nostrils. All the nurse had to do at that point was teach the mother how to position herself and the child. You don't need sight for that.

[Nyoibo]

The nurse trained in breast feeding made an observation on breast feeding, which according to you is wrong because expers should only make observations in their field you agree with otherwise they are unqualified.

If she only made an observation then it wouldn't have been such a problem, she however made an arbitrary conclusion based upon one observation.

"The child is without proper custody, support or care due to both of (the) parents being blind, and they do not have specialized training to assist them."

There is no way she can back up a single one of those claims from the observation of the mother having trouble breastfeeding for the first time, she made a conclusion and stated it as it were known fact. It would be as if I see someone bump their shin and make the conclusion that "This person hassub-standard motor control no observational awareness and is a danger to themselves and all around them"

And no, she has no qualification to make any of those claims, the only claim her expertiese allows her to make is "Mother appears to need assistance or training to facilitate breastfeeding"

One other thing, where did it say the nurse was a lactation nurse? I only see that she was a nurse in the article.