Why does the U.S.A...

[Plaidman]

Worse case scenario is they live in America for a few months while the governments work things out.

*cough*ELIAN GONZALES*cough*

[Red Panda]

Didn't he live in America a few months and go back home? Plus that case is very very different.

[Plaidman]

Didn't he live in America a few months and go back home? Plus that case is very very different.

How is any different? He was adopted here legally, like the bulk of those people were, then hey, someone wanted him back. Despite him being legally adopted, he was taken back home by force. (Look at those pictures, they have the gun even in the kids face)

[Red Panda]

Elian Gonzales was brought to America by his mother who did not have full custody or any right to bring him to America. His father wanted him back but his American family, whom he did not know prior to living with them, wanted to keep him as a pawn because they were anti Castro. They then ignored the goverment when they were ordered to return the child to his father.

So Elian not only got to live wiht his father but gets to be treated awesomly for the rest of his life because he is a symbol of America having to submit to Cuba.

These children are orphans living in an orphanage were 1100 other orphans were suppose to come to America but they were not part of that program. When a natural disaster made it neccasary to get them otu of their for their own safety these orphans were taken by mistake because airlifts during earthquakes aren't the easiest time to identify who is in what program at the oprhanage. These are children who need to be adopted anyways and America is working with Haiti to make sure Haiti aproves of whatever is done with them. If it is decided they are best off returning to Haiti they will return. If they are best of in America they will stay.

I do not see how being airlifted out of a disaster zone has hurt any of these orphans.

[Plaidman]

I'll agree on that.

But just like Elian, not all were meant for adoption in America. Some have family there still.

However, unlike Elian, I highly doubt Haiti goverment will be able to demand their children back. America will just laugh, and basically state that they'll have a better life here in America, so fuck off.

[Imprl59]

How is any different? He was adopted here legally, like the bulk of those people were, then hey, someone wanted him back. Despite him being legally adopted, he was taken back home by force. (Look at those pictures, they have the gun even in the kids face)

He was not adopted here. His mother and a group of other people left Cuba trying to make it here. Their boat broke and a storm sunk them. Elian and a couple of other survivors were rescued and he was placed with some family in Miami.

Elian's father said that the mother had taken Elian out of the country without his knowledge and he wanted the child back. Relatives wanted to keep him here. Much drama ensues and Elian ends up back home with his dad.

Steve B.

[Red Panda]

Did you miss the part where the American government is spearheading the investigation to make sure these kids can be adopted and don't have family? Even if the kids do have family who want them back in Haiti what politician is going to spoil the goodwill gained from the relief effort and sbatauge their own career so that a random child nobody cares about stays in America? You act like these kids are important and Navy Seals were sent in to steal them form their beds. A mistake was made during an airlift in the aftermath of a gigantic catastrophe. There is no alterior motive unless you think saving orphans is a conspiracy of some sort.

[Hobbs]

Exactly, Panda. I'm always so shocked that people easily demonize the United States when something happens. Everyone seems to forget the amount of aid and humanitarian assistance that both the government, and the people of the United States, give to the rest of the world. Take a look at this article to see what I mean.

[Plaidman]

Did you miss the part where the American government is spearheading the investigation to make sure these kids can be adopted and don't have family? Even if the kids do have family who want them back in Haiti what politician is going to spoil the goodwill gained from the relief effort and sbatauge their own career so that a random child nobody cares about stays in America? You act like these kids are important and Navy Seals were sent in to steal them form their beds. A mistake was made during an airlift in the aftermath of a gigantic catastrophe. There is no alterior motive unless you think saving orphans is a conspiracy of some sort.

o_O I never once said it was a bad thing that the were rescued. At all.
My beef is your own words.

Even if the kids do have family who want them back in Haiti what politician is going to spoil the goodwill gained from the relief effort and sbatauge their own career so that a random child nobody cares about stays in America?
The kids as they will, will just disappear like everyone else in a shitload of paperwork. They will be losted and left here. Likely not speaking able to speak any English, and no way back home.

How is that a good thing? Not all of them will be adopted. Just like Haiti won't always be as bad as it is now. Even if it's somewhat destroyed, I'd much rather have people be raised by, you know, a family that cares? I mean harsh I know, someone to be raised by love. State doesn't give too shits about kids in adoptions agencies, the older they are the harder they are to adopt and at 18 they kick them out into the world to be just as alone as they were before.

He was not adopted here. His mother and a group of other people left Cuba trying to make it here. Their boat broke and a storm sunk them. Elian and a couple of other survivors were rescued and he was placed with some family in Miami.

Sorry for using a wrong word... fine

Elian was FOSTERED here. Put in a home. Taken care of by someone other then blood. Had new family. Any of those better or Ok now?

[Red Panda]

There are currently two goverments working to figure out what to do with those kids. Do you really think both goverments are just going to give up and forget about them?

Besides Haiti refugees are a hot item to be adopted right now. If they weren't having their family situation checked out they would probably already been adopted out.

You seem to be working on the assumption that everybody in this situation is corrupt and evil with no goal in mind. I ask you, would it have been better for this group of people all of whom are under 13 were left on the streets of Haiti to fend for themselves?

[lordlundar]

I would assume it was the US military that did the airlift.

Politicians are not in the military chain of command, apart from the POTUS. So if the military was involved, then they disobeyed the chain of command, which is granted to the heads of the emergency rescue group in the crisis zone. So either it's soldiers acting illegally, or a private group acting illegally. Take your pick.

I really don't see the problem here.

They had no right to be there. That is the problem. There is a reason why crisis zones are sealed off apart from authorized rescue workers, and that to make sure that shit like this doesn't happen.

Would the orphans have been better off being left in a destroyed building?

Oh because the entire country was leveled? No, there are areas outside of the crisis zone that are perfectly intact, and more of a home than a foreign country.

Worse case scenario is they live in America for a few months while the governments work things out.

Yeah, taken away from the only home I've ever known, possibly from my family who might think I'm dead, and my choice becomes starting a new life with people that I don't even understand, let alone know, or going to an orphanage. That's assuming the publicity doesn't wane before that happens. When that happens, I'm screwed as the answer will be when questioned about me is "who?" Some life.

Did you miss the part where the American government is spearheading the investigation to make sure these kids can be adopted and don't have family?

Still an "oops, we goofed, sorry" attempt at a fix that should never have happened in the first place. Let me reiterate that point to make sure you get it:

THEY WERE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE THERE!

Regardless of their intentions, what they did was wrong, and has created much more problems that it solved.

Even if the kids do have family who want them back in Haiti what politician is going to spoil the goodwill gained from the relief effort and sbatauge their own career so that a random child nobody cares about stays in America?

None, the second having any involvement in it will cost them their career, the kid is cut loose and told to fend for themselves. And they don't give a rat's ass about the goodwill beyond how many points in the polls it will give them.

You act like these kids are important and Navy Seals were sent in to steal them form their beds. A mistake was made during an airlift in the aftermath of a gigantic catastrophe. There is no alterior motive unless you think saving orphans is a conspiracy of some sort.

The mistake made was that it should have been handled by the right people. Sure, it's great that they were rescued. But it should have been done by the people who knew what they were doing instead of some cowboys with something to prove. And for a final repetition, regardless of their intentions, they went into an area they were not supposed to be in, and took the kids to another country instead of working with emergency crews to make sure they were accounted for. This is not the right way to do things!

[Plaidman]

You seem to be working on the assumption that everyone of those people had nowhere else to go, or would never be adopted there.

You also seem to be under the assumption that since they are a hot item to be adopted, that they are being adopted with love rather then just OMG! LOOKY! I has a haiti baby! I SPECIAL!

I've also been around long enough, dealt with enough people, to realize that a vast majority of them are evil, and mostly care about their own image and money only. Most of those kids will be forgotten. America will get in trouble by /losing/ them in the system,but will likely attempt to back it up by stating that they are better here then there, and they are working on finding them.

Adoption kids do get lost in the system. People lose track for decades, and it takes thousands of dollars, and several years to be able to even get a name.

America is going to want to keep them, under the pretenst of being safer and better for them. (The fact that it'll look like a good will is just a /bonus/ for their image). Haiti doesn't have the resources, nor can they risk losing what support they have from America by ticking them off by badgering them for the kids who has parents back home repeatedly.

After all, Elian's foster parents fought tooth and nail for years, people were screaming to have him back home in America and to fuck off birth father. What makes you think that isn't going to hapen again on far larger scale of the all those kids?

Pretty sure that alot of those kids parents are still lost in the wreckage, and are persumed dead, just like their parents likely persume their own kids dead.

It's great they rescued them.

But it's going to be a horrible aftermath.

[Imprl59]

Sorry for using a wrong word... fine

Elian was FOSTERED here. Put in a home. Taken care of by someone other then blood. Had new family. Any of those better or Ok now?

Elian was placed with relatives here after he was rescued. Relatives are family. Relatives are blood. Once his family here had him they refused to return him to his father when he asked to have his son returned. There is nothing similar between this case and the one currently being discussed. Elian Gonzales situation was a political fight amongst his family that grew in to a political fight between the cuban population of America and the country of Cuba. Our government took him from his relatives here against their will and returned him to his father in Cuba. Exactly the opposite of what you are claiming they are going to do with the 12 Haitian children yet you are trying to use him as an example to back up your position.

[Plaidman]

Elian was placed with relatives here after he was rescued. Relatives are family. Relatives are blood. Once his family here had him they refused to return him to his father when he asked to have his son returned. There is nothing similar between this case and the one currently being discussed. Elian Gonzales situation was a political fight amongst his family that grew in to a political fight between the cuban population of America and the country of Cuba. Our government took him from his relatives here against their will and returned him to his father in Cuba. Exactly the opposite of what you are claiming they are going to do with the 12 Haitian children yet you are trying to use him as an example to back up your position.

Not exactly what I'm saying, though I can see how one can see that.

I used it as an example in the sense that US put out children from another country into homes without bothering to see if hey, they had a parent somewhere else.

When it's revealed that they did, they took him from home to a very HUGE blacklach of public hate. Then Cuba used it as an example of their own superiority. (Even though they were in the right, they still were basically taunting US with HA HA HA HA! We told your goverment what to do and they did it!)

Do you really belive that US is going to want that again? To deal with another goverment that may taunt they beat the giant? Even one that we're giving as much help to them as possible?

Do you really belive that US is going to want to deal with it's own citizens that WILL throw rallies? That will riot over being told to give back any adoptees back to their families in Haiti? Do you really belive that any person that adopts them, will willingly give back a child they wanted to take into their home? Or will they live in fear that the goverment will storm into their home waving guns to get back a child, which again, will cause much more anger towards the goverment. After all, if we haven't rescued them, they wouldn't have adopted them, and since they werent suppose to be there in the first place, some citizens will likely even sue (We all know people sue over the stupidest thing).

While they did the right thing in my belief, I'm paronia enough to understand this will cause alot of backlash from various other countries.

Especally other countries that had similuar attacks, but were not given the attention to their own children that need adoption and rescue like Haiti has. (In terms of coverage)

[Imprl59]

You aren't going to let the facts of the case get in the way of your supositions at all are you?

The twelve children in question have not been adopted or placed with foster parents. They have been and still are in a catholic orphanage in Pittsburg waiting while the US and Haiti decide what to do. The kids were put in their own wing of the place and they brought in people who speak their language to care for them.

I'll agree that they need to hurry up and decide what is going to be done with them. I can't imagine the stress on these children. They need to be given some bit of a steady and normal life.