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**Mongo Skruddgemire** · 08-13-2010, 05:18 AM

This is a classic example of why it is a bad idea to hire just anyone off the streets to work as security. Grabbing someone in a choke hold like that is only warranted when the person is doing something to threaten your life. Such as the idiot I saw on Cops last night. He fought the officer and tried to brass knuckle the officer in the scroglies. Perp ended up in a choke hold until backup arrived.

But someone who isn't paying attention to you? Jackass should have stepped in front of the guy and said something. Hope he loses his job and I hope he gets sued.

**Kimmik** · 08-13-2010, 06:26 AM

Omfg... having a deaf cousin.. I know how startling it can be to all of a sudden be grabbed... Shoplifting aside that was way to much force... and the one blocking the other guy from trying to tell his friend what was going on.. omfg... arrrrrrrg

**Nyoibo** · 08-13-2010, 06:31 AM

I just think it's a pity he didn't do it to someone who could have kicked his ass.

**Plaidman** · 08-13-2010, 06:42 AM

Originally posted by Nyoibo View Post

I just think it's a pity he didn't do it to someone who could have kicked his ass.

Right.... because shoplifters should be let go.

Why don't we just allow everything to be free? Make the world better, seeing as people belive that shoplifters should just steal whatever the fuck they want.

Was it excessive? Likely.

Did the thief deserve it?

Maybe. Stealing is only harms people indirectly, not directly, so I can't in good consense condone or admire it, despite my rather rabid hatred of thieves.

In anycase, at least was held long enough for police to arrest him.

Though it will be thrown out, the guard will be arrested, and the thief will be rewarded. Such is the world when it comes to criminals.

**~~Hobbs~~** · 08-13-2010, 08:04 AM

Plaid, no offense, but your morals are so skewed. You can't see that what the security guy is doing is wrong? I've been trained how to detain freaking terrorists that doesn't involve a chokehold. A chokehold is used for only one reason; to incapacitate/kill the victim. There are plenty of non-lethal/life-threatening detainment procedures that a security officer should know if he's detaining someone.

The man, if he stole anything, was making off with $20-$30 of merchandise. Don't you find the death penalty a bit extreme in this situation? And if you argue you're against murder again, don't you see the guy struggling to breathe because his airway is cut-off?

Also, in certain states, a person has to be certified to be able to detain someone. If this guys isn't, regardless of the shoplifting, he can get in trouble. Speaking of which, even if he's certified to detain someone (which I doubt due to lack of a proper uniform/badge) that gives him no right to use excessive force.

I think we can all agree to this definition of excessive force, and that the security officer is in violation of it:

Excessive force by a law enforcement officers is a violation of a person's rights. Excessive force is not subject to a precise definition, but it is generally beyond the force a reasonable and prudent law enforcement officer would use under the circumstances.

Force should be used in only the minimum amount needed to achieve a legitimate purpose. Police brutality is a direct violation of the laws within the police force. The use of excessive force is also a direct violation of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments of the U.S Constitution regarding cruelty and protection of the laws.

**ZedOmega** · 08-13-2010, 09:12 AM

Originally posted by Plaidman View Post

Right.... because shoplifters should be let go.

Why don't we just allow everything to be free? Make the world better, seeing as people belive that shoplifters should just steal whatever the fuck they want.

(rest of post cropped for space)

There's a difference between shoplifting and being physically unable to hear the anti-theft alarm. It could've just been the cashier forgetting to remove a security tag. And even if he did shoplift intentionally, that security guard was overstepping his authority by putting the 'thief' in a choke hold. Most security companies teach their employees to restrain people using the arms or chest, to avoid the threat of lawsuit.

**Nyoibo** · 08-13-2010, 09:45 AM

Um, as far as I was aware the alarm went off, he actually had recipts for the items he had, did you watch the whole clip and read the top comment, the one by the guy who actually filmed it?

Don't jump down my throat and put words in my mouth, if it had've been me in that situation and I got grabbed from behind with out warning the security guy would probably be nursing broken bones.

**Plaidman** · 08-13-2010, 10:35 AM

Right. Because the person filming it knew it all.

You have any fucking many times I personally, as a worker, bust people shoplifting, only to have them scream at me that they did indeed buy it from me. Other customers belive them. Cameras don't lie.
Unfortnaly, when it's caught by someone who only see's the aftermath, and not the whole story, of course it's going to look bad.

In anycase: Good thing to know if you shoplift, your going to be knocking teeth out of anyone that stops you.

Curious to know how much you shoplift? Maybe you'll punch the wrong guard who beat you to a pulp in defense.

**Mongo Skruddgemire** · 08-13-2010, 11:08 AM

Woah! Plaid, calm down.

Jesus!

At no point did Nyoibo say that he shoplifts, just that if he were grabbed form behind roughly he'd deck the offender.

Right. Because the person filming it knew it all.

And you do? Can you show me the evidence in that video (time stamps and everything) that proves that the guy wasn't someone with a neglected security tag? You can no more prove that the guy was a thief any more than anyone here can prove that he wasn't.

I know that you are frustrated at all the thievery, and I know that you have likely have stopped or at least confronted many people who have shoplifted.

But let me ask you this. Have you never had someone buy something where the cashier neglected to disable the security tag? What would your response be? Would you just from nowhere perform a flying tackle on the person just on the chance that the person is a thief? Or do you do the rational thing of confronting the person and asking for a receipt and seeing what transpires from there?

I'll lay you even money that is how you were trained. You hear the alarm, you ask to see a receipt, and if you see a receipt you let them on their way. If they can't, then you take steps as appropriate.

Now ask yourself this. How would you react if you saw a person tripping the alarm and calmly walking past it like nothing happened? What would you do if they made no notice of you asking them to stop and neither sped up nor slowed down. Would you go into aggressive mode and clobber them, or would you go and step in front of the person and get their attention (or tapped them on the shoulder or otherwise get their attention? What would you do if you found out they were deaf?

These are questions that should be answered by your training. If your training doesn't cover this situation, perhaps you need to ask your boss to come up with a policy before you or anyone else where you work are in the situation and have to rely on their own adrenaline responses.

**AdminAssistant** · 08-13-2010, 02:54 PM

Also, remember, in order for a shoplifter to be arrested, the LP guy has to: 1) have taped evidence of the shoplifter hiding items on their body/in a bag, 2) have constant surveillance of the shoplifter, and 3) they have to wait until the person leaves the store (otherwise they could say they were going to pay for it.) We were trained to never approach or accuse shoplifters, only inform LP or a manager. A few dollars worth of store merchandise isn't worth the health and safety of the employees and other customers.

Besides, they didn't even shoplift. They didn't hear the store alarm. The employee forgot to remove or desensitize a security tag....you know how often that happens to me? I go back, they check the receipt, check to make sure tags are removed, and then let me go. But, apparently in Plaid's world, I'm a thief that deserves to get my ass kicked for no reason.

**~~Red Panda~~** · 08-13-2010, 03:21 PM

Oh noes! A crime has been committed. Everybody better beat up that person so they will never do it again!

**blas87** · 08-13-2010, 05:46 PM

I think this is yet another story where we don't know all the details and are speculating a bit too much.

If this is as true as the video portrays, that's sick and I hope that rentacop is fired.

**Plaidman** · 08-13-2010, 06:22 PM

Show me an article on news that states the person forgot that.

All we have so far, is this person stating that on a tape. He wasn't the guard. He wasn't an employee. He wasn't with the two people. He only saw the guard stoping a thief.

Were the two deaf people together the entire time? (even to the bathroom together?). The man easily could have slid a shirt or two under his clothes while his pal was in bathroom. I've dealt with enough thieves to know dozens of ways they steal, and how groups always work together, and scream their innocence when they are caught.

Not to mention the thief is currently on a very high bail of half a million or something like that, which means judges and cops saw video edvence.

**MaggieTheCat** · 08-13-2010, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by Plaidman View Post

Not to mention the thief is currently on a very high bail of half a million or something like that, which means judges and cops saw video edvence.

Source, please?

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktl...,6097535.story

Originally posted by KTLA.com

Rea was arrested and charged with robbery and shoplifting. He is being held in the Twin Towers Correctional Facility on $55,000 bail.

Not quite half a million there.

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Excessive force used on deaf 'shoplifter'

Excessive force used on deaf 'shoplifter'

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