Excessive force used on deaf 'shoplifter'

[Plaidman]

Source, please?

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktl...,6097535.story



Not quite half a million there.

Sorry. Diplopia

[linguist]

Not to mention the thief is currently on a very high bail of half a million or something like that, which means judges and cops saw video edvence.

accused thief. arrest does not equal conviction. and even if he did do it, shoplifting is not a crime which merits a violent and potentially lethal takedown.

[Mongo Skruddgemire]

Not to mention the thief is currently on a very high bail of half a million or something like that, which means judges and cops saw video edvence.

Well NOW there is an article that clarifies the situation. and gives us the missing information.

Before that article, all we had was one video that didn't show anything other than a guy in a head lock getting the shit choked out of him. Nothing of the incident, not much of the takedown (if anything). The video didn't tell the whole story.

And certainly nothing on the way of proof one way or the other. Until we had the police's story we had nothing but a guy in a headlock.

Not to mention Your comments towards Nyoibo was a bit much. Perhaps lashing out for someone grabbing you from behind may be a bit much (I don't think so in when you have stories like this), but to out and out accuse him of being a thief? That's a bit much.

I shoplifted twice as a teenager. Caught and suffered the consequences of my actions both times. There, now you can stop pointing your animosity for shoplifters at someone you don't know if they are or are not one and can now point those guns at me. Feel free. Give me a broadside. I'm pretty thick skinned.

Or instead would you prefer to rationally discuss the matter at hand and not throw accusations at people who may or not deserve it or at people who have learned their lesson when they were young and stupid?

[Plaidman]

I shoplifted twice as a teenager. Caught and suffered the consequences of my actions both times. There, now you can stop pointing your animosity for shoplifters at someone you don't know if they are or are not one and can now point those guns at me. Feel free. Give me a broadside. I'm pretty thick skinned.

Or instead would you prefer to rationally discuss the matter at hand and not throw accusations at people who may or not deserve it or at people who have learned their lesson when they were young and stupid?

People young and stupid are one thing.
I don't need to direct any animosity, as someone else already has it for the massive thefts they did between 12-16 years old.

Nyoibo never made it clear if he stole or not, just the fact that if anyone grabs them from behind, their going to be missing teeth. So he could be stating that he steals and dares guards to touch him so he could knock their teeth out.

[Red Panda]

Or a sane person would interpret that statement as "If a random person grabs me I will defend myself; I have no way of knowing who they are or what their intentions are."

[Plaidman]

Or a sane person would interpret that statement as "If a random person grabs me I will defend myself; I have no way of knowing who they are or what their intentions are."

Or any sane shoplifter would interpret that statement as "Oh shit, I'm caught, I need to escape! Beat the man and run!"

[linguist]

Or a sane person would interpret that statement as "If a random person grabs me I will defend myself; I have no way of knowing who they are or what their intentions are."

particularly if they're deaf and can't hear the person come up behind them, or hear what's being said to them as they are taken down.

[ZedOmega]

Plaid, much respect, but calm the fuck down, would you?

The article that Maggie linked shows that the items were purchased. The charges were inflated, though. Robbery? The man paid for his items, his friend was trying to show proof, and he was still arrested. Plus, robbery implies that the man was attempting to intimidate everyone in the store. And the assault charge is also trumped up; trying to escape a lethal hold in a panic and actually taking a swing at the guard are two different things entirely.

Nyoibo's stance on the guard's actions make sense, but like I said before, any guard who actually paid attention during his training would actually say 'Excuse me, sir/ma'am' instead of immediately grabbing them in a choke hold. I don't agree with the 'if a guard grabs me, I'm gonna start breaking limbs' stance, because the second it turns into a fight, I personally would do everything I can to make sure neither one of us gets hurt (pin on the ground, restrain the arms, ideally; it takes them out of the fight with a minimum of pain inflicted). But I see where he's coming from.

[Plaidman]

particularly if they're deaf and can't hear the person come up behind them, or hear what's being said to them as they are taken down.

Well, if he didn't, you know, steal, it wouldn't had happen.

Hard logic to follow I know.

Don't commit crime, don't get hurt.

[Red Panda]

Or any sane shoplifter would interpret that statement as "Oh shit, I'm caught, I need to escape! Beat the man and run!"

Unless the person isn't a shoplifter in which case all they know is that somebody is assaulting them.

[Ginger Tea]

Each time I go to one of the larger 24/7 english supermarkets on the way to or from work to get break time snacks I always take my headphones off to make sure I can hear the alarm go off, not that I doubt it would be audiable with them on. I do this IN as well as out as some times ive had other store deactivated tags set off another stores alarms as I enter.
Only once or twice have I set the alarms off leaving said supermarket and that was due to a non removed tag in an electrical item (normally my umpteenth set of over the ears headphones as I always loose signal to the right after 6 months and never keep the reciept for a replacement) I normally try to go out when its just me at the wide entrance as you never know if its me or someone else setting it off, I go back to be checked and I'm clear only for them to find the real reason heading out the car park.

but once at leading brand competitor I went in headphones on and headed straight to the toilet (also alarmed) and never heard the alarms go over my music, everything I had on me I had brought at an electrical appliance store and was not sold at supermarket, I went out (again not hearing the alarm being set) got a trolley and set it off again (again oblivious to it all) now as ive gone in and out and in again setting off the alarm I no doubt had someone keep an eye out over me whilst i shopped as no one approaced me at any stage. upon leaving I force of habit took of my headphones and lo and behold heard the *BLEEP* BLEEP* *BLEEP* turned around to go to customer services and almost tripped over the security guard stationed by the doors, all of their stuff failed to set off the alarm, chocolate bars dont have tags and my receipt tallied with my shopping, it was my other store stuff that did it.

So I can only hope that if I didn't take of my headphones and didnt hear the alarm for the umpteenth time I would have just got a polite tap on my shoulder for my troubles than a rugby tackle as I try and get headphones that block out all break time chatter to the extent that I mighjt as well be deaf as i cannot hear a word said and people have to physically get my attention if my head is in a suduko book

and on a side note in 05 I volentary took a Deaf awareness class, prior to taking and flunking (due to family reasons) level one BSL and was told that a woman who worked in a large chain department store found her co workers had little to know understanding on how to deal with someone really hard of hearing, let alone a Deaf sign user

[Plaidman]

The article that Maggie linked shows that the items were purchased. The charges were inflated, though. Robbery? The man paid for his items, his friend was trying to show proof, and he was still arrested. Plus, robbery implies that the man was attempting to intimidate everyone in the store. And the assault charge is also trumped up; trying to escape a lethal hold in a panic and actually taking a swing at the guard are two different things entirely.

Where does it state that they were paid for? All it says is that the deaf's friend claimed they were. Something that happens alot with pairs of thieves. Police state that stuff was found in his bags. Which very likely was NOT on the recipt, otherwise they would not have arrested the man and would have arrested the guard.

[ZedOmega]

Where does it state that they were paid for? All it says is that the deaf's friend claimed they were. Police state that stuff was found in his bags. Which very likely was NOT on the recipt, otherwise they would not have arrested the man and would have arrested the guard.

And the charges? Robbery and assault? At worst, they should be petty theft and resisting arrest. On top of that, at the time the guy was being detained (read: choked half to death), staff was ignoring the receipt in his friend's hands. And this all happened outside of an upscale Hollywood clothing store. The police would automatically side with the store, no matter what the verdict for the guy ended up as.

[Plaidman]

And the charges? Robbery and assault? At worst, they should be petty theft and resisting arrest. On top of that, at the time the guy was being detained (read: choked half to death), staff was ignoring the receipt in his friend's hands. And this all happened outside of an upscale Hollywood clothing store. The police would automatically side with the store, no matter what the verdict for the guy ended up as.

Robbery and assault are out of wack. I'll agree with that. Even resisiting arrest is pressing it in my opinion.

As for police automatically siding with store? I never dealt with that before. Most cops that did come to store while I was strugging with shoplifter wants the whole story, from both people and any witnessess. Wants to see tape. Wants copy of tape. All this before arresting the shoplifter(s) who were lying through their teeth to police.

[Rageaholic]

This reminds me of a similar situation near detroit where security beat a man to death because they thought his daughter stole a 4 dollar braclet. In both cases, security overreacted and should have used non lethal force to detain them. Shoplifting doesn't warrent such excessive force.

Did they guy even steal anything or did the alarm just go off? On one hand, it says there were charges against them, but it also says that his friend tried to show the reciept. Whether they were actually shoplifting or not, the security guards went too far and could have killed the guy.