A Court rules the government can

[Jack]

Here's a scenario for those who still don't get it. A cop who wants to screw you over can arrest you on suspicion of some crime. Just like they can find a reason to pull you over, they can find a reason why you might have been the person who did one of many crimes they're on the lookout for the suspects of. That you won't get convicted or even to trial isn't really the point. If you spend a couple of days in jail and call your work to tell them this you may well find yourself out of a job because, oops, we don't employ people who get arrested. Character blah blah integrity image blah.

I'm not saying that the country will immediately become a big-brother police state with a GPS tracker on every vehicle, but the point is that if they *can* abuse it they *will* and you aren't special -- one of these days you'll piss someone off or screw up or even just be a part of random surveillance (hey, if they don't need a warrant, what's to stop them?) and you'll find yourself wishing they couldn't do it.

[Plaidman]

I've dealt with asshole cops. I had a cop have his gun pointed at my face when I was six years old, because I was with my uncle who was a known drug user to them.

I'm just stating, that GENERALLY, not all cops are assholes. GENERALLY not all cops are corrupt beings that have nothing better to do then plant gps on cars because they are bored.

Just because you have hatred of cops because they dared to enforce the laws that you break, does not mean that all cops are bad.

[Racket_Man]

Your commute to and from work takes you through a known drug dealing / prostitution area? Who cares if they're traffic lights, I've got evidence that you stop repeatedly in this area for minutes at a time. You MUST be doing something illegal.

CH

I had that very thing happen on vacation a couple of years ago. I was visiting my Mom and had just gotten off the highway. I pulled into a McD's that I had worked at years before just to use the restroom. I immediately saw they place had gone WAAAY down hill in the 5 or so years since I had been in that neighborhood. I got back into my car and drove off and was going to take a certain way to get to my Mom's apt. that way was now blocked by a new High School (that was not there even 2 years before) so I had to turn around mid-street. as I pulled back onto and as I started down the main street I noticed a car following me a little too close. not really thinking about it I decided to try another fast food place in another area. the car still followed.

Now as a delivery driver I really do NOT like cars following me (for safety and security reasons) for this kind of distance. so I turned into my old neighborhood thinking "OK just get off my tail." the car STILL followed me. NOw I am in full driver awareness mode. Ok ordinary car is FOLLWING me what is going on here????

I make another turn and the car still is following me. CRAP what's the deal here?? I take another turn and car is still behind me.

Finally the driver puts a flashing cop light on the roof and pulls me over. plain-clothes cops complete with real badges and guns and ID. they get me out of the car and do a pat down. they get my info such as DL current address and WHERE I am going. the male cop then opens my door and starts searching the inside of my car. he starts pulling stuff out of the door pockets (like a MapQuest map to a friends house in the middle of the state that I live, some clothpins my Mom left in the car when I got it from her) and the open center pocket (where I kept my cell phone charger, cigarettes, lighter, matches my insurance info, some work stuff and some OTC pain meds)

NOTE: I did not have anything illegal in my car as I do not really do that kind of thing. BUT.......

Hmmmm did not give him persmission to do so. He just DID it. the male cop keeps telling me HE KNOWS I am up to no good. WHY???? I still to this day have no idea. I mean if he wants a street map of MY delivery area why not ask???? maybe he needed some curshed peppers or some parm cheese???

All I had in my car was my duffle bag of cloths for the week, some sodas and snacks, extra cigarettes and various tools and stuff in my trunk.

they let me go without much in the way of telling em why I was stopped or what they were looking for. BUT THEY KNEW I was up to no good.

[Gerrinson]

Yeah, I can totally see this getting abused, especially by the local douchebags with badges cops.

For the record, this is my entire 'criminal' history: I've had exactly 1 civil traffic ticket. And that was for an out of date inspection sticker when I took my car off the road in January while I found a job and earned enough money to get it repaired (in July.) I was driving to the appointment to get a sticker when I got pulled over. Cop said it was BS and the judge let it stick because the sticker was actually out of date, even with my proof of inspection that same day and a written statement from my mechanic that I had made the appointment rather than just showing up. He refused to explain how I was supposed to get my car inspected without taking it to the inspection station, though.

Another incident where the I was hassled by cops inluded getting pulled over 3 times in less than 10 miles. Two local cops and one state cop. I was driving home from my friends house, a 30 mile trip, at 2 AM. When I turned on my lights, I noticed my left lowbeam was out. Not much I can do about it at 2 AM.

I was only 10 miles from home the first time I got pulled over. Local cop gave me a warning for the headlight and let me go.

The moment I cross the next town line, I get pulled over again by a local cop. Get another warning for the headlight, get let go.

A half mile past the line for my town, I get pulled over by a state cop who asks me why I haven't gotten my light fixed since I've got two warnings for it already. Yeah, fuck you officer. I showed him the warnings and the time stamps at which point he gave me a long speech on proper maintenance, including that I should carry at least one of every part at all times (going to be fun carrying around an extra chassis and set of body panels) so that I can make these replacements as they come up. Then he tells me he should be ticketing me because I failed to heed the prior warnings. Then he kept me there for a full 15 minutes asking me questions to which I would answer 'Yes' while slipping in "and-I'd-like-to-search-your-vehicle" all rapid fire trying to trip me up. He failed, because I am smarter than your average bear badge wielding power tripping douche. He was pretty pissed when I asked him how he would feel about me calling his commanding officer to ask their policy on repeatedly asking someone to waive their 4th amendment rights when that person had made it clear they weren't going to do that. At which point he have me a warning about the light and let me go. So, that would be 1 out of 3 officers who abused their authority. I do not want 1 out of 3 to be authorized to put a tracking device on my vehicle because they're assholes who now know where I live since they pulled me over and checked my ID. Thanks anyway.

I've had a few friends who get hassled by the cops on a regular basis. I do understand that my friends have been busted for possession (weed) and for other minor offences. So, fine they have records. But some of the hassling borders on harassment, like the officer that stopped my old roommate every day on her 2 mile drive to work. Every. Single. Day. He would then write her a warning for BS items like, 'no tail lights' even though they test just fine. After a month of this, she finally agreed to report him (after much cajoling from the rest of us.) The next day, he came to the house and screamed at her for filing a false complaint and how dare she be such a bitch because he does his fucking job, etc. At which point I asked him to vacate the premises unless he had official police business that didn't involve harassing my roommate. He went off on me, too and threatened to arrest me for obstruction. Little did he know that the telephone handset attached to my belt had his CO on the end - I called from the other room before I got involved. Fucked himself over pretty good there. That ended the harassment, but the fact that it went that far is pretty damned scary.

So, yeah, given the ability to abuse power, police officers around here do. Fuck this 'no warrant' bullshit. If they truly suspect I've committed a crime, and have proof, then they will be able to convince a judge to sign a warrant. If they don't have the minimum proof for a warrant, then they will have do their damn job which involves collecting proof for a warrant. The last thing I need is one of these fuckfaces following me around because he can.

[Skelly]

GPS jammers are apparently illegal. Would some kind of scanner find this device though? Just how big are they? And would it be legal to re-plant it on a local cop car if you found one?
Or why limit it to cop cars? The possibilities are endless. Put it in a package and ship it off to say Bangkok .

[PepperElf]

If you're a female, you can refuse a search until a female officer gets there.

when i worked security (granted this was navy) that was mandatory. all pat-down searches had to be conducted by a security member of the same sex.

(though one of the guys was kinda obviously gay so i don't know if a suspect would be allowed to say "not him" or not)

as for not letting the police in when there's no warrant... this happened a couple of times when i was living at home

- first time we were very young... the cops just asked permission to cross through our yard because they were trying to catch one of the neighbors running a chop-shop in the field out back. Mom said "sure" and we watched them go thru from the upstairs window cos it was kinda exciting.

- second time, neighbor's garage was vandalized (mainly cos his son was unpopular) and since he saw one of the vandals running he assumed it was my sister because she was a runner. cop came over that night to question sis. mom wouldn't let him in the house. sis was dead asleep and had a race the next day (plus she wouldn't do something like that - neither of us would have). So the cops had to go away.


oo just remembered another one that happened at an apartment complex mom use to live in...

one of the new residents didnt speak much english (SP) (tho her daughter did). at some event at the complex, one of the other residents (SG) accused SP's son of stealing her camera.

SP & the apartment manager cornered the child and wouldn't let the mother near him while they questioned him. The manager said "Well SP is a cop!"

Mom stepped in and said "no she's not. she's a mall security guard who is in school to be a cop." Then mom proceeded to let SP's daughter know that SP & the manager had no right to corner the child nor any right to block his mother from accessing her son

SG & apartment manager were pissed off but... nothing they could do. cos even if SP *had* been a real cop... she would have been outside her jurisdiction since it was her own camera.

[Racket_Man]

The next day, he came to the house and screamed at her for filing a false complaint and how dare she be such a bitch because he does his fucking job, etc. At which point I asked him to vacate the premises unless he had official police business that didn't involve harassing my roommate. He went off on me, too and threatened to arrest me for obstruction. Little did he know that the telephone handset attached to my belt had his CO on the end - I called from the other room before I got involved. Fucked himself over pretty good there. That ended the harassment, but the fact that it went that far is pretty damned scary.

.

Do you know if this so-called "COP" got severly disciplined or fired for this?????? cause that is ONE stupid officer.

[crazylegs]

If the cops don't have a warrant, they cannot enter your house. You do not have to even answer the door, much less let them in.

If you're a female, you can refuse a search until a female officer gets there.

Be aware fellow UK readers - this does NOT apply in the UK.

Certain laws give a power of entry, and they can do so by force and WITHOUT A WARRANT (they do have to show reasonable cause to enter though, i.e. the suspects known home address and it be shown that someone was in the house but not answering the door).

Hell in certain circumstances the police don't even need a warrant to search your house after you've been arrested!

There is nothing in UK law that states a male has to be searched by a male and a female by a female.

[Greenday]

Be aware fellow UK readers - this does NOT apply in the UK.

Certain laws give a power of entry, and they can do so by force and WITHOUT A WARRANT (they do have to show reasonable cause to enter though, i.e. the suspects known home address and it be shown that someone was in the house but not answering the door).

In the US they can only enter if:

1. You give them permission.
2. They actively see something illegal going on.
3. The believe someone is in danger inside the house.

[Jack]

Do any hot pursuit laws apply or is that just for jurisdictional boundaries?

[crazylegs]

Do any hot pursuit laws apply or is that just for jurisdictional boundaries?

In the US, or the UK - and if for the UK what do you mean?

[KabeRinnaul]

What's so scary?

...

I fail to see how it's a bad thing.

Some people feel such things should be opposed, if for no other reason, on the grounds that the government has more than enough power over the people already, and there's no reason to shift the balance even further in their favor.

[Bronzebow]

Some people feel such things should be opposed, if for no other reason, on the grounds that the government has more than enough power over the people already, and there's no reason to shift the balance even further in their favor.

Not to mention that none of the reasons you edited out from that post have anything to do with doing away with warrants in the first place.

Requiring a warrant does not hurt good cops, because good cops would go for a warrant anyway.

Requiring a warrant hurts bad cops, because they cannot (or are at least slightly more limited in their ability to) abuse the power entrusted to them by society.

There are zero plus sides to a scenario such as this, honestly.

[PepperElf]

reasonable cause

that also applies in the US if i'm not mistaken. though they'd better have good proof.

also if the cops have a warrant for say "apartment 1" but they search "apartment 2" by accident, thinking it's "apartment 1".... even though the warrant doesn't technically cover the second apartment, they are still legally allowed to use what they find.

and if the suspect puts the evidence in the trash can and puts the trash can out to be picked up... no warrant needed.