Bragging about tampering with customer food

[Jester]

(continued from above....)

I wonder if there's any legal recourse agaisnt this site. I mean, they are admitting to committing a crime, and the fact that some post their names and locations should be at least something to go on (I'm also sure that the government could get ahold of IPs from users).

Simple answer: No.

Longer answer: No, because an admission of something is not enough to convict someone of a crime. Generally speaking, in the U.S. at least, for one to be convicted of a crime, merely admitting to it is not enough without additional corroboration. In this particular instance, there is simply not enough information to make it a practical matter for an overworked law enforcement agency to bother investigating. Even if one were to bother to look into any of the stories, there is simply not enough information to go on: no victims are specifically identified, times are vagues, most of the establishments are not clearly identified, and there is simply no proof as to the validity of any of the claims. While cops might look into a website like this boasting stories of murders, rapes, and assaults, petty acts of childishness like these, however illegal they may be, would simply not be worth the time and expense of the appropriate agencies.

There are drinks we despise making and most often involve a blender or other out of the ordinary tools. Making one is no big deal. Multiple? Expect a short pour.

This goes back to "doing your job." If a group orders five pina coladas, three rum runners, two mojitos, and a frozen strawberry margarita, while it is going to be a time-consuming pain in the ass for you to make it, as it is your job you should still make it to recipe. Shorting someone's drink the correct amount of booze because you don't like making that particular drink is both unprofessional and unethical. Making sure the party knows such an order will take a bit longer than, say, ten rum and cokes--that's both professional and ethical. Shorting someone booze is absolutely equivalent to ripping off a customer. Period.

Blended drinks are a pain-in-the-ass to make. Far more annoying than using a shaker, and far more annoying to clean up.

Tip more for a daquiri than you would a martini, and more for a martini than you would for a glass of wine. If you take into account how much work your beverage is, you shouldn't have a problem getting decent drinks and service from a bartender.

Yes, they are a pain, but again, part of the job. The bartender should make it. While it's fun to have a busy night where everyone is ordering bottled beer (I had a night like that once, it was awesome, but I don't expect another busy beer bottle only night for a long, long time), you have to take the good with the bad, and the bad is the dreaded frozen drinks, mojitos, etc.

That being said, you should always tip your bartender according to how they served you. If they serve me well, I am going to tip them well, regardless of whether I was drinking bottled beer or a Doubled Over Monkey Surprise Crush.

Only bad thing was was that during the incredibly busy times of the weekend, these same girls or people who had heard about the cocktails would try to order them. Bad luck to the was, either the bartender (who only worked the weekends) was not trained in cocktail making, the ones who were trained were working at another part of the bar, or it would be so busy that no-one wanted to make them.

This was an error on the part of management. They should have either specified in their promotional material about the slow night that such drinks would not be available during peak times, or trained the entire bar staff on how to make them. To offer them as they did is simply not fair, to either the staff OR the clientele. The customers can't always get what they want when they want it, and because of this, the staff ends up looking bad to some of the clientele.

As to tampering with food:
Closest I ever came was simply chucking a cold burger into the microwave when a customer demanded a new one. She didn't even notice.

This is not tampering. You are not introducing foreign and potentially harmful substances to the customer's food, which is unacceptable.

You are merely lying to them about certain details of their food's preparation. While not exactly aboveboard, in many instances this is not only acceptable, but absolutely necessary and justifiable.

I don't even understand what the big deal is to the people who do things like that. It doesn't take *that* long to make nearly anything and a few extra minutes for some more complex blend/mix isn't going to kill the income for the rest of the night. If the time taken to make a few fancy drinks seriously affects that, business probably just sucks overall.

Sorry, Jack, but you are a bit mistaken here.

Some drinks not only take longer to make, in the process of taking that extra time to make them, everything else gets slowed down. Yeah, you may have only ordered a Miller Lite, but I have to go make these three mojitos here.

And when business sucks is NOT when this kind of stuff slows things down....it's when business is crushing that it does. It's a struggle to keep up sometimes even when people are ordering just the basics. When it's knee deep, the labor-intensive drinks can really bog things down.

Mind you, I am not excusing the idea of not making said drinks, or even whining about them. I am just saying that it really can throw things for a loop. (By the way, whining about such drinks among staff is perfectly acceptable, and standard fare in the industry. Whining or complaining about it to customers, or refusing to make them, or short-pouring them is NOT acceptable. Nor is it professional.)

Just as the barman has every right to be annoyed at a group of people demanding different mixed drinks; especially if they are rude with it.

Yes and no. If people are being rude, then yes. If they are being polite and not being douchebags, the barman can be as annoyed as he wants about making the drinks, but expressing such annoyance to the customer is just not acceptable.



The opinions expressed above are mine, and some of them are strong. These opinions were formed over 24 years of working in the food service industry in virtually every capacity. I do not apologize for them in any way, so if they offend you, tough luck. Keep in mind any attacks I made were against actions and philosophies, not against any individuals or groups of people. If you think I singled you out, I wasn't, so have a shot and chill out.

[Mongo Skruddgemire]

The idea is to get you to order something else. To a bartender, the phrase "time is money" is very literal. If we have to spend a lot of time making a single drink or even more time making multiples of said drink, we're losing out on what can be made from other customers, not to mention the risk of losing customers because they can't get a drink quick enough.

CH

Well then if time is money, why in the name of Zeus's sweaty ball sack are these drinks on the goddamn menu in the first place?

If a drink is going to take a bartender so much time that he is risking losing money off of other customers THEN DO NOT PUT IT ON THE MENU.

I'm sorry. But in my little narrow world, if some company offers a product and/or service, advertises a product and/or service, then they are saying to the world of the consumer that said product and/or service is available to the consumer.

What you are saying is rather akin to a McDonalds saying that making a Big Mac takes more time than a Quarter Pounder so the unwritten law is that McDonalds will short measure us on the fries by means of punishment for having the audacity to order what is offered and advertised. Or BK doing the same thing because the Whopper is time consuming.

The idea is to get you to order something else.

Short Measure is Short Measure no matter how you justify it. Next you'll be saying that it is ok in the state of New Jersey (where by law attendants have to pump the gas) for said attendant to short measure you on the gas you paid for simply because they had to go through the extra step of unlocking the gas cap instead of the faster and simpler unscrewing it. Or for a butcher to short you a few ounces on a cut of beef because you asked him to cut one that wasn't in the display case.

I can see not going the extra step and doing the long pour, but if you advertise a four-ounce drink and only pour 3 because you're pissy about something...well that's stealing from the customer if you're still charging him for the full four ounce price.

[Jack]

Nice post(s), Jester. Thanks for that. I still don't quite get how a time-consuming order affects the big picture but I don't really have a good understanding of bar logistics etc. Oh well, it won't stop me sleeping at night.

[draggar]

Now we know why jester is so successful with his career.

Be advised that the amount you see in your bank account that day or the next may NOT be accurate, and it may have nothing to do with any theft attempt on the part of the establishment or the server. Just about daily my management fields calls from people who were in the previous day who are calling to complain about being "overcharged" for their bill, as their online bank statement says they were charged more than their bill. The problem in 99.99% of these cases is not theft, but the bank "hedging their bets" as it were. Many banks will, when a charge is received from a bar or restaurant, actually authorize a certain percentage more than the submitted amount. This is to account for the tip, and to ensure that the bank client has the requisite funds to cover both the bill and the tip. Within a day or so, when the bank computer receives the final amount from the establishment, the bank adjusts the charge to its actual amount, rather than the authorized amount. Apparently this is quite a common practice with banks, so please don't run screaming bloody murder if your bank statement is higher than your steak dinner from the night before....chances are it's your bank, not your server.

I've only seen the opposite. Whenever we order Chinese food (well, American-style "Chinese" food) delivered, I notice a charge for the amount for a few days and then later the tip I put on the slip is added.

I've never seen the tip added before the final amount, but it may also be that I usually go though my online statement, checkbook, and receipts every 1-2 weeks (so I could miss it).

As for filling out the receipts, if I don't leave a tip on the card (again, cash tip) I do leave a line though the section (a 0.00 can easily turn into a 20.00) and I always fill out the total amount.

[Lace Neil Singer]

[

Yes and no. If people are being rude, then yes. If they are being polite and not being douchebags, the barman can be as annoyed as he wants about making the drinks, but expressing such annoyance to the customer is just not acceptable.

Yeah; that's pretty much what I meant. With my example; I'll be all smiles to the irritating customer, but as soon as he's gone, have a good old moan to my collegue about him.

[Greenday]

As for filling out the receipts, if I don't leave a tip on the card (again, cash tip) I do leave a line though the section (a 0.00 can easily turn into a 20.00) and I always fill out the total amount.

That's why if I give a cash tip, I put $0.00 with no space to write anything between the $ and 0.

[Jester]

If a drink is going to take a bartender so much time that he is risking losing money off of other customers THEN DO NOT PUT IT ON THE MENU.

You are forgetting one important thing. To wit, the fact that what management wants done and what staff is willing to do are often not the same thing. In other words, a drink may well slow a bartender down and cause them to potentially lose money/customers. That doesn't mean that management in their "infinite wisdom" is going to take that drink off the menu.

Keep in mind, I am not excusing the behavior of a bartender being a douchebag for a customer ordering something that is on the menu. As you can see from my earlier post, I completely oppose such shenanigans. I am merely pointing out aht there is often a disconnect between those who work the front lines and those who make the executive decisions.

Nice post(s), Jester. Thanks for that. I still don't quite get how a time-consuming order affects the big picture but I don't really have a good understanding of bar logistics etc.

If you have 50 guests at the bar, plus the drink orders you have to make for the waiters and waitresses, you are going to be pretty busy. Let's say most of them are ordering beers, rum and cokes, etc. Add to this the fact that many of them will be ordering food (at least in my bar). It can get pretty hectic, but generaly we can get a good rhythm going. And we can move fast. Than someone orders a mojito, a pina colada, and a key lime pie martini. Each drink is labor intensive. While you are taking the time to make these drinks, four more service tickets pop up, 8 of your guests are looking for refills, and you are still making those drinks. Once you finish, you need to either get to the 8 guests or make the drinks for the service tickets. Either way, you are slowly getting behind in one are or another. And it's cumulative.

I am not excusing the bemoaning of all this, as I said in my other post. I am merely explaining how such things can happen. If you've never worked behind a bar, it's tough to explain. If you've waited tables, it's about the equivalent of having a busy section, getting everything taken care of in a smooth manner, until you get to the table that, when you ask if they're ready, rather than saying yes or no, responds with "Ummmmmm....." and then takes forever to order their food for whatever reason. It puts you behind. A lot.

I would offer you an analogy from retail or corporate America, but since I have never worked in either one, that would be beyond my experience.

Now we know why jester is so successful with his career.

Really? Because of what I wrote? I thought it was because I wa King of the Smartasses! LOL!

I've never seen the tip added before the final amount, but it may also be that I usually go though my online statement, checkbook, and receipts every 1-2 weeks (so I could miss it).

Not all banks do this. And as you yourself said, you are not going through your bank records with a fine-tooth comb the day after you dine somewhere while you are on vacation, like most of these yahoos are. Obviously they are expecting to get ripped off, so they are going out of their way to find such thievery.

[draggar]

Really? Because of what I wrote? I thought it was because I wa King of the Smartasses! LOL!

Or both!

[Mongo Skruddgemire]

You are forgetting one important thing. To wit, the fact that what management wants done and what staff is willing to do are often not the same thing. In other words, a drink may well slow a bartender down and cause them to potentially lose money/customers. That doesn't mean that management in their "infinite wisdom" is going to take that drink off the menu.

I haven't forgotten that fact. That is why in an earlier post in this thread I posted several options. To recap and to expand...

1. Ask management to remove the item (and I'll add this time that explaining the logistical snaggleforp that the item can cause on a busy night might help after all if the bartender is losing money, then the bar itself is losing money)

2. Ask someone else to cover the making of the drink if someone is available.

3. Explain to the people ordering the beverage that it is a complex order and that it will take more time, further giving them the option of waiting or ordering something a little simpler to make

4. If you are really getting slammed on a regular basis and management is unwilling to help you in any way, then it may be time to consider finding another bar that either doesn't do the dreaded drinks, or has enough staff to cover the easy drinks (beers, martini's, coolers, etc) while one makes the complex beverages.

[Racket_Man]

As for filling out the receipts, if I don't leave a tip on the card (again, cash tip) I do leave a line though the section (a 0.00 can easily turn into a 20.00) and I always fill out the total amount.

good thinking on your part daggar. ALWAY fill out all of the lines ona CC slip and put a total in whether tipping on the CC receipt or in cash.

you would not believe HOW MANY people just scribble their signiture on the CC slip and throw it back at me. I COULD (if I were so inclinded which I AM NOT) put at least a couple of dollars on there and they really would have no recourse. people are so stupid and "trusting" and do NOT really think that situation through. Hmmmmm the ink is the same, the writing is the "same", hmmmmm just some customer trying to scam the store and the server/driver by demanding their "tip" back.

Yeah too many of those and it would get suspicious. and NO again I do not do that sort of thing

NOW if I can just get people (not you of course) to ACTAULLY TIP instead of a zero, a slash, or N/A on the tip line and just the order total

[Jester]

Semi-related to this, a customer told me this joke today:

What's the difference between a toilet and a bartender? A toilet only has to serve one asshole at a time!

[IDrinkaRum]

That's why if I give a cash tip, I put $0.00 with no space to write anything between the $ and 0.

If I'm giving a cash tip, I write CASH on the tip line in BIG LETTERS and then fill out the amount the at the bottom:

Total: $14.50
Tip: CASH
New Total: $14.50

I'm not sure if this is obnoxious or not, but that's what I do.

[Jester]

If I'm giving a cash tip, I write CASH on the tip line in BIG LETTERS and then fill out the amount the at the bottom:

I'm not sure if this is obnoxious or not, but that's what I do.

It's not obnoxious at all, and is pretty common, to be honest.

At least, *I* don't find it obnoxious. And if the tip is reasonable or better, I can't believe the bartender/server in question wold find it obnoxious either. Because they're getting their tip, and you are covering your ass with your credit card. Nothing wrong with that.

[MaggieTheCat]

That's exactly what I do when I pay with credit but tip with cash, Rum. Right down to the big obnoxious capital letters. Besides, it tells the server at first glance that you did leave a tip rather than just leaving it blank or putting $0.00 and them wondering if you left anything or not.

[PepperElf]

or they will post a whinny message on another retail-type ranting message board about how "we (CS and the mods who police the site) are just a bunch of pussies

ironic you mentioned that. after one of my threads got locked for being too controversial i was invited to some other message board where complaining about CS mods would be taking place.

dunno who sent the invite tho since i emptied the inbox since then.

but i'm betting it's one of those similar sites you mentioned.