Schools giving students unexcused absences...

[HYHYBT]

What sort of school calendar did you all have that had days that were "goof off days" in every class? We had occasional *periods* like that, or the time left over in a final exam period after everyone was done taking the test, but never, that I can recall, whole days. Certainly none that were known about in advance so as to schedule somewhere else to be!

Though, come to think of it, there might have been for those who didn't go on the senior trip.

What sort of idiot draws up a school calendar that doesn't put final exams on the last day?

[KnitShoni]

Actually, excessive absences is what the conversation turned into. The op is about what is considered an excused absence versus unexcused, and the consequences for each.

[MaggieTheCat]

My original point was that schools should not dictate when a parent can pull a student out of class, as long as the student has the parent's permission. As I've said, if you guys who are against absences during the school year never pull your kids out for anything because you don't feel it's right, that's great. It's YOUR DECISION. I think it's wrong, however, for a school to say, "Students can miss class for these two reasons only, otherwise it is unexcused and they will be punished for it." It's not the school's place to decide how parents raise their own kids.

[KnitShoni]

Exactly. As far as my argument, the only reason I brought up excessive absences was when I pointed out that in my district, the consequences for excused and unexcused absences are the same until a student misses 9 days of school. The kids do get a perk for not having any unexcused absences up to the time when semester finals are taken: they can be exempted from taking them if they have no more than 3 excused absences and a B average. The two days that my husband pulls his son out of school occur after finals are over. Finals are Monday-Wednesday of the final week of the semester, Thursday and Friday are early dismissal days. Those are the two days he misses to go hunting. Our rules for allowing this are that he can have no more than 1 excused absence during the semester (none unexcused) and he has to have an A average.

[Bronzebow]

Your last note about whining is pointless. You're not doing anything except whining on an online message board. Stop quibbling and actually do something about it.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

This is exactly the point I'm making. I'm discussing something, and you've pulled the W word out twice where it is neither accurate nor adding value. If my question was whining, I'd hate to see what you would call actual whining.

Also, you seemed to have missed the point of the text you quoted (and the part you didn't).

In fact, several times over I have not said that, emphasized that I have not said that etc. I have said it so much, your comment is quite amusing to me. So if you don't have anything to say to me other that what you've repeated, and don't have a question which can't be answered by reading my posts, then I'll no longer entertain questions from you.

I'm not certain where you're coming from with any of this. You've consistently ignored any points made by either claiming parents are entitled, by pulling this "whine" nonsense, or by pulling the "snowflake" maneuver so many times that I'm not even certain your fingers don't have frostbite (can we say, ad hominem?). You've consistently tried to strong-arm conversations from the occasional vacation or the gimme days into your imagined "excessive absenteeism" red herring (yes, it was you who made it up in post #58). You've consistently ignored points everywhere, only to claim ironically that the only thing you see is "quibbling" (everywhere) and by mischaracterizing arguments (#107, #131, several others). You also make the claim that taking vacations makes you a bad person and a lawbreaker (#64).

I've been reading this thread from the beginning. The majority of the people here agree with you that missing a lot of school time is a bad thing. At this point, I can't even tell if you're against excessive absences or just so adamantly against taking a Friday off to visit Grandma in Georgia that you're a step away from advocating chaining kids to their desks.

[Hobbs]

<snip>

It's funny that you try to win the argument by pointing out (erroneously) fallible arguments that I have made, while you continue to make your own. When I said that to Greenday, I was referring to the fact that I had no problem with a child missing a few days-especially the lax days after finals-but not missing days where actual class was being administered "just because." I also stated that a parent should be responsible in not taking their child out for excessive days. You never know when your child will get hurt and need to use those absences for a real problem.

There's no reason to be out of school unless you're sick or an extraordinary circumstance like a death in the family. If I went to visit my grandma by missing a day of class-no matter the class-she would tan my hide (rightfully so). She and my grandfather didn't have the privilege of a universal education system, and would have loved to have gone to school...even on an "off" day.

And you all are still quibbling:

quib·ble (kwbl)
intr.v. quib·bled, quib·bling, quib·bles
1. To evade the truth or importance of an issue by raising trivial distinctions and objections.
2. To find fault or criticize for petty reasons; cavil.
n.
1. A petty distinction or an irrelevant objection.

[KnitShoni]

Hobbs, you're the same person who told me I didn't care about my children's attendance for taking them out for two of the very days you now claim are OK to miss.

Also, in the case of your grandma: If you showed up on her doorstep when you were supposed to be in school and weren't with your parents, I could see why she would whip your behind. However, if you showed up where with your parents, would she do the same?

[Hobbs]

Probably so. She would tell my mom she's being irresponsible, and also raise hell b/c my mother wasn't at work.

Not caring about your children's attendance is not the matter I was discussing. Point of fact; a person who cares about attendance makes sure they go to school excluding extraneous circumstances. It is okay to miss those days, but you certainly don't care about attendance if you pull your child out of school for no reason.

[Greenday]

There's no reason to be out of school unless you're sick or an extraordinary circumstance like a death in the family.

You seem to be saying that the only way to learn is in school. Learning consists of more than what you learn in school. Vacations and such can help broaden your education that you will never receive sitting in a class room.

[KnitShoni]

It is okay to miss those days, but you certainly don't care about attendance if you pull your child out of school for no reason.

For no reason, or for what you don't think is a valid reason? Spending time with his grandfather and father, on the only vacation he gets, is a valid reason, in my opinion.

[Boozy]

The whole issue boils down to one thing: I believe a parent has the right to determine their child's educational experience.

The US already acknowledges this, because home schooling is permitted. A child is allowed to receive educational instruction at home for elementary school and then take exams to get into high school, for example.

I'm thankful that my parents took our education into their own hands instead of blindly following the public school system's schedule and curriculum. We weren't home-schooled, but nor was public school considered the primary source of learning. If my parents believed that missing a day of school would provide a more valuable experience for us, we didn't go to school that day.

Public schools tend to operate on a "one-size-fits-all" program. I can't blame them, since there's not much else they can do. But if a child needs more structure/less structure, more challenging material/ less challenging material -- and the parents are willing to provide it -- then they should be encouraged to do so. As long as the child is doing well and learning.

We started to take formal schooling more seriously when we entered grade 11, since that was the first year in which our grades and attendance would count towards university admissions. I have no problem with stricter guidelines for students in later years.

[Hobbs]

Public schools tend to operate on a "one-size-fits-all" program. I can't blame them, since there's not much else they can do. But if a child needs more structure/less structure, more challenging material/ less challenging material -- and the parents are willing to provide it -- then they should be encouraged to do so. As long as the child is doing well and learning.

Actually, as my brother can attest to, that is not how school curriculum is anymore. There is a lot of specialization for different students, and they all have to be given this specialized care by the same teacher.

[Hobbs]

For no reason, or for what you don't think is a valid reason? Spending time with his grandfather and father, on the only vacation he gets, is a valid reason, in my opinion.

So, your son doesn't get summer off? Sucks for him.

[Rageaholic]

I'm thankful that my parents took our education into their own hands instead of blindly following the public school system's schedule and curriculum. We weren't home-schooled, but nor was public school considered the primary source of learning. If my parents believed that missing a day of school would provide a more valuable experience for us, we didn't go to school that day.

Public schools tend to operate on a "one-size-fits-all" program. I can't blame them, since there's not much else they can do. But if a child needs more structure/less structure, more challenging material/ less challenging material -- and the parents are willing to provide it -- then they should be encouraged to do so. As long as the child is doing well and learning.

Quoted for truth.

I can't blame the schools for using the "one size fits all" style of learning. The problem arrises when they say it's the only way to learn anything. Even worse is when they enforce rules penalizing students and parents for doing things outside of their box. They start dictating how everyone should do things which is the reason I have such little respect for the public schools.

What those who are for the school are forgetting is that the school is the ones telling the parents and students what to do. The rules are already set, saying that unless you have a doctors note, you better be in school or they will give you an unexcused absense. All we are asking is that the schools change the rules to be more leniant for EVERYONE (not just us). They can still do things their way and we can do things our way.

[Hobbs]

All we are asking is that the schools change the rules to be more leniant for EVERYONE (not just us). They can still do things their way and we can do things our way.

Is there a QFF?

Anyway...what does it really matter if the excuse is excused or unexcused? Seriously, it's a trivial matter. All you're doing is harassing an already-harassed corps of professionals.

The problem is, the rules get lenient, people start bending the rules farther back. If anything, they need to be more strict.