Schools giving students unexcused absences...

[MaggieTheCat]

...even when parents call in for their child?

My SIL's son (my nephew, D) is in 2nd grade this year. She and I were talking about them coming to see us sometime early next year, when she mentioned that she would have to come up with some excuse like a relative died in order to get D out of school. I asked what she meant, and she said that all absences a child has during the school year are unexcused, unless it's due to illness or death in the family, and even with illness, the school needs a dr. note in order to change it from unexcused to excused. Even if the student only misses one day due to illness, and even if the illness is something like the common cold, which going to a dr. for won't help anyway.

I don't know what the difference between unexcused and excused absences are exactly, but I'm sure the student gets reprimanded for having too many (or even any) unexcused absences; probably detention of some sort, at the very least.

This just strikes me as ridiculous. Even if the parent calls in and says, "Little Johnny is not feeling well today so I am going to keep him home" the school needs a dr. note or it's unexcused. Even if a parent contacts the teacher and says, "We are going out of town in 3 weeks for a long weekend so Little Jonny is going to miss class on that Friday" it's unexcused because it's not due to illness or death in the family.

Seriously? When I was in school, my parents pulled me all the time to go on trips and family functions. Sometimes for a day or half a day on a Friday to go somewhere for a long weekend, sometimes for a week (or more) when we went to Arizona to visit my grandparents. My parents always let the school know in advance and the school was fine with it. I'd get homework and reading assignments from the teacher before I left and do it while we were gone.

I realize kids today probably skip school a lot more than they did when I was in school, but I still think it's ridiculous that a parent can call in for their child and say they're ill and the school will still mark it as unexcused. Or, in this case, my SIL has to make a 8-9 hour trip one way to drive to us, so it's not like she can just come for a weekend. Yes, there are the usual school vacations like Christmas and Spring breaks, but those don't necessarily line up with her work schedule or our's. Plus there is going to be a play coming to our city in the middle of February that she really wants to see and bring D to, that falls around no school breaks.

Is this the norm these days? All unexcused absences except in extreme circumstances?

[Hobbs]

I don't know what the difference between unexcused and excused absences are exactly, but I'm sure the student gets reprimanded for having too many (or even any) unexcused absences; probably detention of some sort, at the very least.

Being the son and brother of an educator, let me explain it simply. An excused absence is one where there is a legitimate excuse (ie. illness or death in the family). An unexcused absence is one where there is no legitimacy (ie. skipping, not wanting to go etc.)

"We are going out of town in 3 weeks for a long weekend so Little Jonny is going to miss class on that Friday" it's unexcused because it's not due to illness or death in the family.

It's unexcused because a responsible parent will know not to make out a trip that will interfere with their child's studies. Saying, "I don't wanna go in because I'm going on vacation," is not a legitimate excuse; not in school and not in work either.

Is this the norm these days? All unexcused absences except in extreme circumstances?

Yes, it is the norm. Except in extreme instances, legitimized by a *doctor in the case of illness, it is the responsibility of the parent to make sure that their child attends classes on time and prepared. I don't know about the school district you're SIL is in, but at mine, term schedules were published the previous Spring and would arrive in the mail. That gives ample opportunity to see what the on/off days are and to plan trips accordingly.


*A doctor's note is required now because of too many children feigning illness and too many parents playing doctor at home. So if you were one of the kids that did this in school, you're the one to *blame

*Joking.

[Greenday]

Never heard of that back when I was in high school. As long as I had a note from my mom, it was excused. You were only allowed a maximum of 16 excused absences before you had to get a doctor's note explaining why you are constantly sick all the time.

Sounds ridiculous for a kid that young. What are they going to do? Give her detention? I don't think a school will put up a fight with a parent if they parent knows about the absence.

[MaggieTheCat]

I told my husband about the issue his sister is having with taking D out of school in February. He went to the same elementary school D went to, about 20 years ago (in fact, this was his 10 year HS reunion so my husband would have been in the same grade D is in now, 20 years ago.) He said the rules were the same back then. He remembers once his dad wanting to go to some truck show in Utah and his parents having to come up with an excuse that a great-grandparent died because otherwise the school wouldn't excuse it. He also said that it's against the law for parents to pull students except for a very very small list of valid reasons (such as death in the family or serious illness) and that if a student has too many unexcused absences (he doesn't remember how many but it's a small number) that they automatically fail that grade and have to repeat it.

...

I didn't tell him so, but I call bullshit. Does someone know the laws (we're in Texas, if it matters) for school attendance/absences? My google-fu didn't come up with much.

[IDrinkaRum]

Good Lord! I'm glad my daughter's school doesn't have the same kind of policy as that school!

Though, we did get letters last year from the principal that if your child had a fever, keep them home. So the school my daughter attends, I suppose, is pretty lenient. Plus with all the ear infections Child had last year, it was ridiculous.

I have no way to help you with your google-ful-finding-facts. I can't even find a needle in a haystack on google.

[NateSean]

Vermont school systems are kinda funny that way.

In Rutland, if your child swears during class, you-the parent or guardian-have to pay a fine. It's something like ten dollars per offense.

I'm not sure how that works or what happens to the child if the parent doesn't pay up. But I'm sure it works out in the minds of whoever cooked it up during the two hour *makes pot smoking gesture* teacher's conference.

[telecom_goddess]

I always had the schools here say if a child has a fever they were to be kept home....and if they were throwing up they had to be kept home even longer. They sure didn't need a doctor's note for that.

[Rageaholic]

Wow that's ridiculous. No one can plan family vacations around the school year because of some stupid rule?

This shouldn't be any surprise to me considering the schools just to dictate what people can do.

[AdminAssistant]

On one hand, an elementary school should let parents keep kids home if they're sick with just a call...to a very limited amount. However, I call BS on not being able to plan vacations around the school year. My folks would have never let me miss school to go see a relative, go on a trip, or anything like that (unless it was through the school). We did see family - on weekends, on Spring Break, during the summer. If Mom and Dad wanted to go someplace during school, we stayed with a neighbor. And went to school. Shocking.

I see this attitude in college students, and I don't understand it. I have students who think that they should get an excused absence for trips to see their second cousin's piano recital. Um, no. In order for an absence to be excused, I need a doctor's note, an obituary, or some kind of documentation, with the exception of religious things (Good Friday, Rosh Hashannah, etc). What I told my students this week is that I certainly wouldn't ask them for proof they were Jewish, but it wouldn't be wisest to turn around and request off for a Christian, Pagan, Muslim, etc. holiday.

I don't get to take days off for a friend's wedding, my cousin's baby shower, my niece's birthday. Hell, my fiance is here on vacation right now. Should I have gotten this week off so I could be with him? No. I'm here, and they should be as well. If they choose to skip class for something, then that's their choice and they have to accept the consequences.

[MaggieTheCat]

College students are one thing. I can understand that more because they are adults. Elementary school students are different, IMO. They are kids. They are not held to the same standards as adults. What, you're telling me you're prepping them for "real life?" When they're 7 years old? Sorry, I don't buy that. If a parent gets a vacation from work in the middle of the school year because that's one of the few times their employer allows them to take vacation (at my old job, only a very few employees could take off around holidays and in the summer because it was so incredibly busy; sometimes they had "black-out dates" where no one could request vacation for certain weeks, like the weeks between Thanksgiving and New Years) they should be allowed to take their kids with them if they're going somewhere or visiting family.

Also, I think it's kind of BS that students are allowed to go on school functions like band trips for a week ("band trips" at my school were bogus; the band went somewhere for a week, played one hour-long concert for one of the local schools where they were going, then were allowed to do what they wanted the rest of the time; it was basically a vacation, in the middle of the school year) but they're not allowed to go to some historical site like Mt. Rushmore or the Alamo where they might actually learn something, because they're with their parents and not a teacher.

[Greenday]

In college, missing class is a little different. You only have class a couple of times a week and you cover a LOT more making it harder to keep up. But it also depends on the kind of class. I had classes where there was rigid rules on cutting class. Then I had teachers with the attitude, "I don't take attendance. If you miss class, that's your fault and you are only hurting your own grade." Which makes sense. I mean you are paying thousands of dollars to be there and the teacher is getting paid whether you show up or not. My stats teacher freshman year said if we wanted to only show up for the tests and the final and miss every lecture, we were welcome to do it if we thought we could pass. I still went but after our last test, I had the highest grade in the class and he graded on the bell curve. I skipped the last month which was just review, focused on other classes, and got an A in the class.

[AdminAssistant]

but they're not allowed to go to some historical site like Mt. Rushmore or the Alamo where they might actually learn something, because they're with their parents and not a teacher.

I know it's just an example - but what the hey can a kid learn from Mount Rushmore? "Okay kids, this is where a racist blew up sacred Indian ground!"

I understand that it must suck to not be able to take vacations during the school year. But pulling a kid out of classes for a week puts a strain on the kid and creates a lot more work for the teacher. And lying about the reason is disgusting. You're basically teaching your kid that lying is okay as long as you have a really good reason (like going to a demolition derby).

This is why I've had to start asking students who miss for funerals to bring me a clipping of the obit or one of the memorial things from the funeral. I hate that. I know it's tacky. But it's the only way I can prevent the rash of dying grandmas and great-aunts during mid-terms or when papers are due. Teachers have been burned so many times that we can't give our students the benefit of the doubt anymore.

[Greenday]

Admin, since you deal with performing arts, I'm not sure how testing works out for you, but you could always do what my organic chem teacher threatened if people claimed to be sick for the finals. "There is nothing you can do to miss my final. I don't care if you are in the hospital, you are still taking the final. I will show up in your hospital room with a get well card in one hand and your final in the other." Funny at first, but I wouldn't be surprised if he'd really do it.

[Cats]

At my high school, if you had more then 6 unexcused absences in a term, you got an administrative failure for that course (though you were given the dates and some time to produce said excuse notes to get it overturned). Yeah, that's great. I can understand emphasizing the importance of attending class, but at the same time, why should someone be punished for being out, even if they would have had an A+ in the course otherwise?

The school was pretty lenient though with excuse notes. You should have seen the lines the attendance office on the mornings of school formals for girls getting dismissed early to get their hair done.

[MaggieTheCat]

I maintain that there is a huge difference between elementary school and college, and that the students of each level should be held to a different standard. Stuff that a kid learns in elementary school is not hard to make up, compared to stuff that a student misses in a college class -- and compared to what a child might miss if they don't go with their parents on a trip somewhere. Okay, so you don't learn much from visiting Mt. Rushmore. Is learning something the only worthy thing one can do? Isn't there such a thing as enrichment through experience, and seeing once-in-a-lifetime places or events? Oh noes, Little Johnny is going to miss out on the multiplication table of 5 and how to spell "grandmother" because his parents took him to see a great sight of North America. Better give him a bunch of unexcused absences and threaten to fail him.