Schools giving students unexcused absences...

[Greenday]

High school was a joke of an education. Maybe it's because I was smarter than most in my high school but it felt like a joke. When I had mono, I was out of school for nearly two months. Two whole months where I couldn't go to lectures. One of my football coaches came once every couple of weeks to bring me work. That was all the education I received. Nailed high honor roll anyway. From what I've gathered over the past four plus years, my high school taught me more than the average high school student in America yet there was nothing challenging. So when I can miss nearly two months of classes and still get A's, what's the big deal about me missing a few days a different year to experience somewhere new with a different culture to help shape and mold me instead of that monotomous thing we call public education?

"No one here is congratulating you on graduting. We all knew you'd do that. We are congratulating you on making it through high school without becoming a scumbag."

While not directed at my point for this conversation, it still points out that graduating was not a challenge. And it's not. A high school diploma used to be worth something. Now it's barely worth anything because it's so freaking easy to get.

So why do we need to have laws to force kids to go to school except when they are sick? If I don't go over the allotted days off, what's the big deal? I'm hurting only myself and that's my choice. There is literally no one else being harmed by my choice.

College is something completely different so I can't even begin to discuss that.

[Hobbs]

No one said anything about piling up absences with vacation. We said a day or two. I've skipped school before with permission from my mom. In college, I skipped classes albeit rarely. Boohoo, I wasn't there for lecture. If I missed an inclass assignment that was graded that day, I missed it and took the small hit to my grade. I made sure to get notes from a friend and still did the assigned homework. No different from what someone sick would have to do. No one gets hurt by this.

As Admin said, people have mentioned taking out their children for more than "a day or two." And you may like the idea of taking a hit in your grade, but some of us want to improve ourselves.

Taking it from another perspective, if I were looking at potential hires, I'd hire the person who attended their classes, got good grades and only missed when extenuating circumstances arose. I would not hire the person who was okay with a mediocre grade and skipped class repeatedly.

Considering all kids the same holidays, that means parents have to fight over who gets to take days off, sometimes many months in advance. And don't compare school to work, that's apples to oranges.

You're still quibbling. The school can't be logically expected to schedule classes and classwork around each and every individual student's family life. Expecting that is entitled.

All I hear from the people siding with the school is...nothing related to why these rules are valid.

*
"Researchers are just now delving into the short- and long-term effects of school absence; this emerging body of research shows that frequent absence unambiguously predicts later academic problems, dropout, and even criminal justice involvement."

*"Missing School; the Epidemic of School Absence." Sundius Jane, Farneth Molly. OSI-Baltimore. 19 September 2008.

<snip>

Congrats, you're smart. For some people, high school is a challenge. Your comments are very insulting to those who may not have had as good an education or the opportunities that you had (aww, coach was nice to you). So just because you think it's a joke, or that you think it's easy, doesn't mean it's easy for everyone. It's pretty sad that you can trivialize education so much. People with that kind of thinking are the reason why our school system isn't improving. Instead of bashing it, why don't you try working to make it better? Oh, right, because that would be productive.

[Greenday]

Congrats, you're smart. For some people, high school is a challenge. Your comments are very insulting to those who may not have had as good an education or the opportunities that you had (aww, coach was nice to you). So just because you think it's a joke, or that you think it's easy, doesn't mean it's easy for everyone. It's pretty sad that you can trivialize education so much. People with that kind of thinking are the reason why our school system isn't improving. Instead of bashing it, why don't you try working to make it better? Oh, right, because that would be productive.

You're right, high school is a challenge for some people. Those people should know that taking off time from school is a bad idea but if they do, the school shouldn't punish them even more for it. That makes no sense.

Coach was not nice to me. My school had to send someone to give me work since mono is kind of contagious and I was legally unable to return to school grounds.

I fought back then for what I believed in. I was one of the few who fought to keep the music program alive when they wanted to cut it so save some money. I was THE first to take the pre-SATs as a freshman because I believed it was total crap that they wouldn't let me be as prepared as I wanted to for the SATs. As a result of what I did, the music program still exists. All freshman can take the pre-SATs without having to fight and petition to do so. I went back at various times throughout college to speak to the kids about how important it is not to slack off in high school. I slacked off and despite getting a 3.8 GPA without trying, I regret it to this day that I didn't push myself to my fullest potential. I picked and chose my battles and I was able to make a difference even if it was only one school.

NOTHING will ever change the fact that public schools will never be challenging enough for the above average student. And when public school is all you can afford, if it isn't challenging and a few days off going somewhere new, learning a new culture, some language, history, etc. is your opportunity...I'm taking the vacation that involves more diverse learning and broadening my knowledge. I was way ahead of any math class or science class I took. I read so fast that we'd be assigned a book to read for the next month and I'd be done by the next day. I covered stuff in History essays that even my teachers didn't always know. Blanket rules like this stupid one would have prevented me from becoming a better person.

[Hobbs]

Blanket rules like this stupid one would have prevented me from becoming a better person.

Yeah, because a good person is someone who shirks responsibility and doesn't follow the rules/laws.

[KnitShoni]

Do you bitch about it being an unexcused absence? If so, that's entitlement, if not, then good on you.

I guess I'm entitled, then. I see no reason for my child to be forced to attend school on gimme days (those days when no learning is done, i.e. end of semester when all semester testing is done). The purpose for those half-days is to turn grades in, if that hasn't already been done. No testing. No schoolwork. No one's taking a hit to their GPA by missing those days. However, if he's missed more than one day during the semester, he doesn't get to go, because my bitching doesn't change the fact that those are the rules.

In my school district (Pasadena ISD, Texas) kids are allowed 9 absences. This covers both excused and unexcused. I'm not sure if it's the same statewide. So, those kids who miss school and have their absences excused (usually due to illness), but miss more than 9 days, have to go before an appeals board if they want to promote to the next grade.

[linguist]

In my school district (Pasadena ISD, Texas) kids are allowed 9 absences. This covers both excused and unexcused. I'm not sure if it's the same statewide. So, those kids who miss school and have their absences excused (usually due to illness), but miss more than 9 days, have to go before an appeals board if they want to promote to the next grade.

that's because the academic year in texas in most districts only has 180 class days (this is actually a simplification--there are fewer due federal holidays, staff development days, etc., but those vary by district, so i'm using 180 for the sake of ease). if a student misses more than 9 days for any reason, they've missed more than 5% of class days. in an educational setting, that's pretty excessive.

[Hobbs]

I guess I'm entitled, then.

Yes you are. When I went to school (Texas) I also had to follow the rules. And I didn't have a "nice" mommy like you that didn't care about my attendance. My hide would have been tanned if my mother knew I was skipping out of school.

[KnitShoni]

that's because the academic year in texas in most districts only has 180 class days (this is actually a simplification--there are fewer due federal holidays, staff development days, etc., but those vary by district, so i'm using 180 for the sake of ease). if a student misses more than 9 days for any reason, they've missed more than 5% of class days. in an educational setting, that's pretty excessive.

I understand that (btw: I think the 180 is actual teaching days, not days during the school year that are holidays/inservice). My issue with this is, at the end of every grading period, the kids have a half-day. At the end of every semester, they have two half-days. For the last day of school before Winter break, they have a half-day. Both my older kids are in high school, so they have the six-week grading period. That's nine half-days of school, when nothing is being learned, because either grades are already turned in/being turned in, or, in the case of Winter break, they're about to have a long holiday. If those days were full days actually used for learning, that would be one thing. They're not.

[KabeRinnaul]

Am I the only one who thinks that using "it worked for me so it's the same for you" as an argument is incredibly narcissistic? Nevermind it being anecdotal, I've seen this on both sides of this debate and it's starting to grate. Your experiences are not everyone's experiences.

Anyway, isn't this sort of thing essentially telling a parent that the school system knows what their own child needs more than they do? That's the part that bothers me. And just saying "well home-school your child, then" isn't really an appropriate answer either. What about those parents who think that, on the whole, the public school system does a good enough job at teaching the basics, but they believe an extracurricular experience would serve their child better than spending those days in the classroom? Or who must work through the day and thus can't afford the time it would take for home schooling? They aren't allowed to use their time off to give their child something they consider a superior educational experience?

It seems to basically come down to the parent deciding their child needs one thing, and the school system informing them that they are wrong. That they know what the child needs better than the parent. Or maybe that a parent can't be trusted to make that kind of decision for the child. At that point, why do we trust parents to raise their children at all? Or do we, anymore? Considering all the CPS horror stories we hear...

Now, I'll be the first to admit that some parents have no business making those decisions. Those are often the parents who have no business being parents in the first place. I just disagree with letting them set the standard that reasonable, responsible parents must follow.

Finally, I take issue with the idea that "education" means "school." Your education is the sum of a great number of experiences throughout your life. School is only one part of that.

"Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school." — Albert Einstein

[crashhelmet]

Even if it's for one week during the school year, how is that bad? if it was one week a month, I could see the issue, but not 1 week out of the 9 months there in there.

CH

[Hobbs]

Omg, no one is freaking listening! We're not talking about a few days. We're talking about 9+ days! After that is when punishment is doled out. Jesus-tap-dancing Christ! Listen to what we're saying!

[Racket_Man]

I know when my daughter was in school up until 5 years ago all we had to do was call her in sick in the morning to the special number at the school. and yes too many did result in the "We want her to have seen a Dr." But come on even 5 years ago they were telling us (esp after a short menengitias (sp) and nasty flu round and round causing several schools to actaully close) if the child is sick KEEP THEM HOME.

now on to other points. one thing NO ONE has even come close to suggesting is this:

WHY IN THE HOLLY HELL ARE WE IN THE US STILL MATED TO THE OLD 19TH CENTURY AGRICULTURE BASED SCHOOL YEAR?????????? adherience to this outdated and outmoded school year model is at the basis of EVERY arguement everyone one is making for the "forced" regimentation.

Yes education is important BUT why is it that some are penalized because of the parents lives OUTSIDE of the school. as a few have pointed out some parents are very limited in the vacation time window for various reasons. while this may not be the case of the majority of parents it seems to be increasingly happening because of 2 income families. why should they be penalized and not enjoy the same things as others

now to the point I want to make. my daughter went to a school in the Chicago area that had an "all-year-round" school schedule. NO this was not going to school 365 days a year BUT the school year was staggered in groups of 3 months or tri-mesters . here was the schedule they followed

Mid July school starts
Mid to late Oct First trimester ends
3 weeks off meaning time off in the fall
next tri-mester begins
2 or 3 weeks off meaning time off in the winter
last trimester begins
last day of class in early June -- same time as regular school ends meaning 6 weeks off for the days of summer and summer vacations
cycle starts all over again in July

Yes there were projects and homework to complete over the breaks (except summer)

Now this type of schedule would be hard on some parents (daycare during breaks, etc.) and easy on others.

WHY OH WHY must vacation be rigidly planned ONLY for summer and NO other times???? I do not think it is acting like an EW to want some flexability.

a lot of the arguements I see here seem to be VERY black and white. yes I understand about the headcounts and such but......

[Greenday]

Omg, no one is freaking listening! We're not talking about a few days. We're talking about 9+ days! After that is when punishment is doled out. Jesus-tap-dancing Christ! Listen to what we're saying!

You are the only one talking about taking two weeks off from school. No one else has suggested that.

[KnitShoni]

Yes you are. When I went to school (Texas) I also had to follow the rules. And I didn't have a "nice" mommy like you that didn't care about my attendance. My hide would have been tanned if my mother knew I was skipping out of school.

So, because I don't think they should have to go to school on half-days (of which my son only misses two, and then only if his grades are high enough, i.e. he's been busting ass the rest of the semester and doing what he's supposed to do) this means I don't care about my kids' attendance? I distinctly remember saying that if he missed more than one day during that semester, he doesn't get to go. And if he is missing school, his father, his mother and I all know about it beforehand, and he has a valid, verifiable reason for doing so (he only gets to miss if he needs to go to the doctor. He's 17. We still have to take him), so I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that he's skipping school or that we're letting him do so.

It's probably a good idea to pay attention to what's being said BEFORE you start accusing others of not listening.

[KnitShoni]

Also, I think it's kind of BS that students are allowed to go on school functions like band trips for a week ("band trips" at my school were bogus; the band went somewhere for a week, played one hour-long concert for one of the local schools where they were going, then were allowed to do what they wanted the rest of the time; it was basically a vacation, in the middle of the school year) but they're not allowed to go to some historical site like Mt. Rushmore or the Alamo where they might actually learn something, because they're with their parents and not a teacher.

My stepdaughter went to Disneyworld for a week for her band trip last year. Even then, on a school sponsored trip, if we hadn't sent something saying she was on that trip (when I was in school, whenever we went on a trip or missed school due to band, choir, or any other school activity, the band director/choir director/whomever sent a list of names of people who would be on this trip to all teachers. they don't do that anymore), her absences would have been unexcused.