Firefighters do nothing and let house burn down because family hadn't paid a fee

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

Stupid and disgusting, but true, they didn't step in at all...until the neighbor, who had paid his fees, became affected by the fire.

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/10/04/...-subscription/

[crashhelmet]

This is exactly why the Republican/Conservative idea of education, fire, and police services like this will fail.

CH

[Sage Blackthorn]

I'm wondering what the Cranick's neighbors were doing while their house burned?

[HYHYBT]

The comparison to insurance is ludicrous*. Insurance is for financial repair after damage is done; emergency services are for public safety. Completely different.

Suppose that by the time the fire had spread to a covered home, it was beyond containment; what then?

*I've read, I think in one of the "Cartoon History of the Universe" books, of someone running both an insurance company and a firefighting service. They'd show up at a fire with a contract, and stand there until it was signed... and of course, at a time like that, who has time to read?

[Greenday]

On the one hand, it's privatized there. It'd be like calling your neighbor's security company and expecting them to cover you even though you don't pay them a cent.

On the other hand, we are talking about firefighters and there's no reason why they should be businesses.

[Jack]

Privatized economy a la Libertarianism in action. It sounds great until you have to participate in it or can't afford the things currently taken for granted as tax-based.

[draggar]

I wonder if the neighbor can sue the FD since they DIDN'T protect his house from a fire?

[Boozy]

Privatized economy a la Libertarianism in action. It sounds great until you have to participate in it or can't afford the things currently taken for granted as tax-based.

Or until you realize that things just don't work well like that -- for anyone.

The neighbour's house had to catch on fire before there was any acknowledgment of the threat to public safety.

[Bronzebow]

Those firefighters really have to look themselves in the mirror. Allowed to or not, bad policy or not...jeez.

Privatized economy a la Libertarianism in action. It sounds great until you have to participate in it or can't afford the things currently taken for granted as tax-based.

I understand that libertarianism is a favorite whipping boy for the the republicrats, despite the lack of anything of any significant scale in this country following its varied philosophies, but it's extremely unfair to whip them for the sins of a county with such poor planning skills that one of the cities has to actually try to cover the entire county with their public service.

[Jack]

I'm not whipping them for this, just using the case as a great example of the sort of thing that would happen under a fully privatized economy. I know that in this case it's the city FD offering the optional service to the unincorporated county, though.

[Bronzebow]

I'm not whipping them for this, just using the case as a great example of the sort of thing that would happen under a fully privatized economy. I know that in this case it's the city FD offering the optional service to the unincorporated county, though.

I disagree. If it were the case of a private entity handling here, they could have easily invoiced a bill at a later date and handled this now. Unless they were a horrible company, in which they would now be pretty well kicked to the wayside for someone smarter to fill their place.

The whole reason that the firefighters were on the scene but unable to act was because they were specifically given orders not to. Apparently, it's too hard to do now-bill later if you're a small time county official.

Something else started this fire, but bureaucratic red tape and incompetence finished the job. This does not in any way reflect or predict libertarian philosophies or applications. If anything, it's an argument for it.

[ZedOmega]

I disagree. If it were the case of a private entity handling here, they could have easily invoiced a bill at a later date and handled this now. Unless they were a horrible company, in which they would now be pretty well kicked to the wayside for someone smarter to fill their place.

The whole reason that the firefighters were on the scene but unable to act was because they were specifically given orders not to. Apparently, it's too hard to do now-bill later if you're a small time county official.

Something else started this fire, but bureaucratic red tape and incompetence finished the job. This does not in any way reflect or predict libertarian philosophies or applications. If anything, it's an argument for it.

I don't know about that. Somehow the fact that the firefighters couldn't put the fire out because a fee wasn't paid doesn't sit right with me. If an emergency service worker couldn't do his job because there wasn't any degree of payment involved at some point in the caller's history, that doesn't speak very highly of said emergency crew. And I'm not the only one who'd be pissed in that situation.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Firefighters have no obligation to fight fires just because they're firefighters. They are providing a service and that service has certain costs associated with it. Usually these costs are part of the taxes paid to one's local government. In this instance the local government has no fire services, so instead they have an agreement whereby the services of a nearby county are available for an annual fee of $75 since they aren't otherwise paying for the department in question.

Now that we have THAT established, I'll weigh in:

This was the homeowners fault. He knew that he would need to pay $75 a year for fire services if he wanted them (I pay almost as much for X-Box-fucking-LIVE, this guy can't part with that amount? I say: cheapskate.) He decided he didn't want them and didn't pay. His decision, his consequences.

Also, the yahoo article says that they refused to deploy to the man's house because he hasn't payed, but since the neighbor had payed, they deployed to the neighbor to make sure it didn't spread to their house. When it got onto/near the property they stepped in and prevented any further spread.

There was nothing beurocratic or incompetent preventing this man's house from burning down, only his stingy free-loader attitude.

[Vash113]

Just for starters I'll say I am seriously pissed about this situation. But to be precise, I'm pissed at the notion that the firefighters are at fault here. People are rushing to the defense of a free-loading moron who thought he could get away with being cheap and as a result lost his home. You get what you pay for, and if you pay for nothing, you get nothing.

Lets look at the situation here to better understand this. First, Obion county, where this situation happened, has no fire department of their own. Instead, starting in 1990, the South Fulsom fire department has kindly offered their services to another county for a pittance of $75 a year. In short, without South Fulsom providing their help the entire Obion county would have no help what so ever in the case of a fire.

Why is there a fee you ask? Is this a sign of conservative-immoral-money-grubbing doctrine? Well there are a lot of people saying that, but no, it is not. It is because stuff is expensive, fire trucks, gas, fire resistant uniforms, gas masks, oxygen tanks, training, fire hoses, expensive emergency rescue equipment like the jaws of life, insurance, food, liscencing and so on and so forth. All of these things have to be paid for, it is usually done through taxes, but this county in itself is not paying taxes for a fire department because they have none. Another department is willing to go out of their way to help, but they are in another county, this means trucking from their home county to another rural area to provide help. In exchange the South Fulsom county fire deparment asks for an annual fee barely more expensive than what I pay for Xbox freakin live to cover their expenses.

So, into this situation we have this occurance. A homeowner, figures he can be lazy and stingy, not pay the fee and only cough up some dough when he has a problem. Unfortunately this free-loading is just not how it works. I'm entirely behind the South Fulsom county fire department here. If they had provided their services and saved his house, they would have in short shot themselves in the foot and crippled their ability to provide services to the area. After all, who would pay the fee if they'd get help anyway? Nobody. In short, if they had helped, then homeowners would have no reason to pay the fee, the department would then not have any income to cover the expense of servicing Obion county and would probably have to cancel the arrangement. Nobody wants that now do we? Of course not.

You do not buy insurance for your car after you've totalled it. The insurance analogy is perfectly reasonable here, and before I hear any more objections about it, yes insurance does also cover emergency services. In the case of car insurance like Geico, this also includes roadside assistance and emergency assistance. You have to pay for triple A after all.

Services like insurance work because a lot of people pay to cover the few people who actually need those services, but all could potentially need those services which is why you pay in the first place. However if only those who need services pay for the insurance then there is not nearly enough funding provided to make a difference. That is just such a situation that we have in Obion county, the homeowner can't expect to say he'll pay for it afterwards and get the benefits of insurance after the crisis has occurred. If that is how it worked, nobody would pay the fee unless they actually had a fire and that just defeats the purpose and leaves the fire department in the lurch.

To sum up, all of this is the fault of the homeowner. It's shockingly stupid that he's lost his entire home and probably everything he owns over $75, but the stupidity is his and not the fire fighters.

In the words of National Review writer Kevin Williamson: "The South Fulton fire department is being treated as though it has done something wrong, rather than having gone out of its way to make services available to people who did not have them before. The world is full of jerks, freeloaders, and ingrates — and the problems they create for themselves are their own. These free-riders have no more right to South Fulton's firefighting services than people in Muleshoe, Texas, have to those of NYPD detectives."

P.S.

Darn you Wingates, sniping my sentiment and my Xbox live reference!

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Is this a sign of conservative-immoral-money-grubbing doctrine?

In contrast, this is an example of a fire department (a government entity, in fact, the very thought of it!) going above and beyond to provide their services to those who otherwise wouldn't.

And they say chivalry is dead.