Ban Circumsision in San Fran

[Plaidman]

My earliest memories are when I was 1-2. Have several of them, and are detailed. Ma is amazed at even the little things that I described being there that I /shouldn't/ know because I was a baby. If I can remember that far back, I'm sure that people can remember back to their circimcesion too.

[Andara Bledin]

There is no argument that children start forming memories as early as before they are even born. The only question is whether those memories can and do become long-term, for which all arguments point to as possible if the earlier short-term memories are recalled at a point in development where the brain has developed to the point that long-term memories become possible.

^-.-^

[smileyeagle1021]

That is true BUT people should reserve the right to be able to do it. It should still be a free choice.

Did I say the proceedure should be banned?
No, but that doesn't mean that I don't think that it should be a routine cosmetic (because for the most part that's what it is, there are some cases where it is necassary) proceedurethat is forced upon those who are not old enough to consent.
For those who think that it isn't painful, just try changing the diaper of a child who has recently had the proceedure done that hasn't fully healed yet, then try to tell me it doesn't look painful.

I actually had this argument (after the fact) with my future sister in law, she was complaining that medicaid wouldn't cover circumcision, and I pointed out "why would they cover a cosmetic surgery with little, if any medical benefit?"
Her response, "but it's a tradition and his dad wants him to look like him"
Two things, first, it was also tradition that women couldn't vote, so bad argument... second, by the time the child is old enough that down below begins to resemble dad, dad really shouldn't be looking there (and if he is, please let me know, me, him, and CPS need to have a talk).

[Andara Bledin]

Her response, "but it's a tradition and his dad wants him to look like him"

The "wants him to look like his dad" argument has got to the be the most selfish excuse for what amounts to ritual mutilation.

^-.-^

[Amanita]

^Exactly. I don't believe in inflicting cosmetic body modification on kids who are too young to consent, and that includes circumcision. Only exception for circumcision would be if the kid is Jewish. Other than that, leave the willy alone!

[blas87]

I don't like it when people have their babies' ears pierced, but that never seems to be such a big deal as circumcision with people like that.

[Ginger Tea]

I found out that in South Africa it is a rite of passage for an 18 year old to self circumsise themselves, white SA's get their children done young like Jewish children as "all dicks are that way" not untill they are 18 they aint, not if what this guy told me is true, you don't see white babies in newzealand getting maori tattoos now do you?

and this thread would be way bigger if it was about removing or sewing up parts of a girls anatomy FGM outlawed by the UN, MGM?, oh its tradition for my non Jewish family to do so

No one I know, not that I've asked, is circumsised, I don't think its big in the UK, my dad knew someone when he was in the army that had to be done in his adult hood, the nurses deliberatly teased him to get him aroused, just because it would cause him discomfort

[Andara Bledin]

I don't like it when people have their babies' ears pierced, but that never seems to be such a big deal as circumcision with people like that.

As I stated earlier, pierced ears can close. You are (sometimes) removing a very small bit of flesh from an area that is not particularly vital to daily life. I've had my ears pierced twice, once when I was 13, and again when I was 16. If you feel my lobes, you can feel the place where the second piercing was done, but that's it.

I still don't approve of people having it done to their babies (it's to serve their own vanity, really), but it is not in the same realm as docking their dicks.

^-.-^

[Aethian]

My current love of my life is uncircumsized. The reason his Mom had? She didn't want to deal with the bandages. She taught him at a young age on how to keep his penis clean and how to keep the foreskin clean. Hell when we did a shower together one time he had me sit on the toilet so he could show me how to do it right for future events. (Learning experience there...)

He has stated that if we ever have boys to not do the procedure just because they can be taught how to keep themselves clean. So I agree with that...if I have a boy and if at a later time they decide they want or need to remove it...okay. But then it's their choice.

[ExRetailDrone]

This subject is a bit of a point of contention between my husband and I.

If we ever have boys, I do not want them to get circumcised as babies. I don't think that is my choice to make, unless there is a medical issue that needs to be addressed. Like others in this thread, I find the surgery to be nothing more than cosmetic in most cases, which says to me that it's unnecessary.

My husband, however, is leaning towards infant circumcision if we ever have boys. His reasoning is a bit different than most in this regard, though. I don't think he really cares about any sons we might have "looking like him". Instead, he knows what it is like getting circumcised as an older boy and what he went through because of it. He ended up getting circumcised at age 7 because of medical and health reasons, and he's described what he remembers to me. It doesn't sound like it was at all pleasant, to put it lightly. So, I can understand why he feels the way he does, and it will be something that we'll need to discuss further if we ever end up having a son.

Regardless of my personal feelings, though, I do not think that the procedure should be banned. All that will lead to is people either finding doctors outside of the area where it is banned, or getting someone shady to do the procedure, which could result in many more risks and problems.

[Mytical]

Gah so conflicted about this. On one side..it is a personal rights issue..and while some rules about what can be/can't be done are ok..when do we draw the line? For instance, would YOU like to be told "Hey you can't teach your kids that 1+1=2. You have to teach them 1+1=pie." (Yes, I know it's idiotic, but that is kinda the point).

If you are a 'big bang' follower who is against circumcision..how would you feel if FORCED to teach creationism and circumcise your child?

Yet...anything that can harm a child..I am very much against. Even though as a child yes I was circumcised (and remember nothing of it).

I hate the thought of forcing people to act/believe/do certain things. Mind you that yes..if a belief harms another (ie kill all infidels, sex with minors, etc) then I am all for rules against that. That is why I am middle of the road here. It can be a painless procedure, but is the possibility of injury great enough to override religious freedom...

[boringscreenname]

I'm trying to think whether I'd vote for the ban or not, if I had the chance. I'm pretty set against circumcision, but then, many people are set against other controversial parental practices such as abortion, or (to a lesser extent, of course) spanking, and yet they are willing to leave it to parental choice rather than trying to criminalize it.

I think that if I can sincerely say, "It's possible for good people to disagree on abortion, therefore society can't deem it to be murder," (or substitute "spanking" and "child abuse" for abortion and murder) then I must be willing to extend the same benefit of the doubt for circumcision; that is, I can dislike it all I want and try to discourage it from being seen as a positive, but I wouldn't work to outlaw it -- until and unless a time came when the vast majority of people also wanted to do away with it.

It has less to do with how I view circumcision, and everything to do with respecting other parents' freedom to make choices they feel are right for their family -- as well as respecting their reasons for making those choices.