Another 14 year-old girl bullied to death ...

[Lace Neil Singer]

Most 14 year old girls are naive, precocious, and impressionable, aka, easy.

Not in my experience. You must live around some very unusual teenage girls, in that case. Even back in the mists of time when I was at school, there wasn't a single fourteen year old girl who could possibly be described as naive.

Why is it so hard to believe that a teenage girl could make the decision to consent to sex? And just why is it the automatic reaction to play down her decision to brand her erstwhile lover with the terrible label of rapist? Do you have any idea just how bad that is? Think about how you'd feel if someone you had consensual sex with turned round and branded you a rapist. That label isn't easily overturned, even if charges are dropped. It's a brand that can scar a person for life.

This girl isn't an innocent victim, save of the bullying and the disgusting behaviour of people attacking her after her death. She willingly jumped into bed with this guy, then afterwards, probably cuz she was afraid of what her mother would say if she knew she was having sex, told lies about being raped. Had she not killed herself, I doubt that anyone would be defending the way she behaved.

Now, I'm not saying that the boy is innocent, too. He certainly should have known better than to have sex with an underage girl, even if she did consent. He is guilty of underage sex, stupidity and of extremely bad judgement... however, he does not deserve all the punishments that people in the comments are suggesting; from prison rape to gruesome death. Nor does he deserve to have his life blighted forever by vicious lies told by a girl he slept with.

There are no innocent little angels in this entire mess; both are to blame in some way. Had the boy killed himself in despair at being branded someone who forces girls into sex, I somehow doubt everyone would be lauding the girl's actions.

[Canarr]

Sorry, but judging from the sheer amount of people that are trashing her, people putting her down and defending her, proves that he is NOT short of friends or admires, he could have anyone he wants. He chose a 14 year old rather then the hundred other girls he could have. Very well could have slept with her, then dumped her and thus the cause of the rape charges when she realized she was just used for sex by him.

Okay, what kind of logic is that? Seriously?

Wasn't the whole argument that, "He's a slimeball who only slept with a 14-year-old because she's easy!" - so, if he really had "access" to as many girls as you fabricate, why should "easy" be a criteria for him? If he just wanted to get off, why not do so with any of the "hundred" girls apparently lining up at his door?

I'm not as ready to take the number of online comments about the girl as proof of his popularity and number of friends as you seem to be. We all know how quickly things can multiply and spiral out of control on the internet. Personally, I'd bet that most of the people posting those horrible comments on FB probably have no connection to either party, and just "went with it" - same as we here are discussing the case without really knowing the background.

Maybe it was "true love". Maybe he's just an asshole who gets off on younger girls. Either way, doesn't really matter - he should be charged and sentenced for statutory rape according to the law, but he does not deserve the label "rapist".

[AdminAssistant]

Yeah, I'm sorry, but an 18 year old having sex with a 14 year old is just....creepy. There's no excuse for that. If he isn't "mature" enough to deal with women his own age then he should wait until he is, instead of chasing around Jr. High girls.

[Andara Bledin]

She willingly jumped into bed with this guy, then afterwards, probably cuz she was afraid of what her mother would say if she knew she was having sex, told lies about being raped.

Based on the article, it appears her mother found out, started going after the guy for statutory, and then after those charges had already been levied (and original statements taken) did the cry of rape go out. On that, I suspect her mother might have played a large part.

If he isn't "mature" enough to deal with women his own age then he should wait until he is, instead of chasing around Jr. High girls.

Where does the "jr high" thing come in? She was a classmate of his. They knew each other through school. It's easily possible that he didn't know she was only 14, although I can't imagine any way he couldn't have known she was under 18.

^-.-^

[AdminAssistant]

Ah, well, 14 was Jr. High at my school. It's still weird.

[blas87]

Before you get all high and mighty with me with your hands on your hips and your "Well, did you ever figure that maybe he's immature or likes younger girls" or "There is nothing wrong with that!" or any of that fucking garbage, DO remember that I have stated MANY times on both here and CS.com that I was once a very naive 14 year old girl who messed around with guys quite a bit older than me, and I know first hand the intentions of older teenage guys going after younger teenaged girls, not to mention how it makes a young teenaged girl feel to know that older guys like her. I have been there, done that. I'm sure I'm not even the only one on here with this experience.

I knew better than to take it back and go screaming that I was raped when I consented to it, but the 17, 18, and older guys that I was messing around with when I was 14, 15, 16 were CREEPS.

Did I say ALL young girls are easy? A lot are. Very impressionable. Very naive and precocious. Sure, a lot of them are smart and know better or value themselves. I didn't. A lot of other girls my age didn't when we were younger. A lot of girls DON'T. You cannot deny that, and you cannot deny that there is something a little strange about a popular 18 year old boy picking a 14 year old girl over a girl his own age. I doubt it was common interests or bubbling personalities that were attracted. Because every 18 year old guy that wanted me when I was 15 was sure interested in my personality and our "common interests", aka, the ones we shared in a bed.

Yeah, I said MOST. Not all. Take a chill pill and read the whole thing next time.

[Plaidman]

Okay, what kind of logic is that? Seriously?

Wasn't the whole argument that, "He's a slimeball who only slept with a 14-year-old because she's easy!" - so, if he really had "access" to as many girls as you fabricate, why should "easy" be a criteria for him? If he just wanted to get off, why not do so with any of the "hundred" girls apparently lining up at his door?

I'm not as ready to take the number of online comments about the girl as proof of his popularity and number of friends as you seem to be. We all know how quickly things can multiply and spiral out of control on the internet. Personally, I'd bet that most of the people posting those horrible comments on FB probably have no connection to either party, and just "went with it" - same as we here are discussing the case without really knowing the background.

Maybe it was "true love". Maybe he's just an asshole who gets off on younger girls. Either way, doesn't really matter - he should be charged and sentenced for statutory rape according to the law, but he does not deserve the label "rapist".

Where did I ever say I was clamouring for his death? Or declaring him a rapist? Or that even he only slept with her because she was easy? Nowhere.

Simple fact that there he is very popular, has plenty of friends and girls that likely kill to date him. Would they slept with him? Possibly, or maybe they'd be too head strong and make him /wait/. Maybe they talked too much, and didn't kiss the very ground he walked on enough for him. Maybe he wanted someone to control and shape the way he wanted to, both in the bed and in a relationship model, and the younger they are, the easier it is to shape their view points in relations and sex.

Or maybe he was just absouletly in love with her. The world was perfect the moment she entered his life. They had a passionate night of love many times, til one day her mother found out and went apeshit and tried to tear their world apart by forcing the daughter to shout statory rape. But doesn't hear the Statourty part, just the rape part, because despite the word rape in it, statutory rape is often done with consent.

Then the world went apeshit against her, and he decided the best course of action in the brutal assault on the woman he loved, was to do nothing. Never stood up to her, never told people to back off, never stood by her.

Yeah, that's love there. At least High School love where once ya fuck, your done with them.

[the_std]

[/snip]DO remember that I have stated MANY times on both here and CS.com that I was once a very naive 14 year old girl who messed around with guys quite a bit older than me, and I know first hand the intentions of older teenage guys going after younger teenaged girls, not to mention how it makes a young teenaged girl feel to know that older guys like her. I have been there, done that. I'm sure I'm not even the only one on here with this experience.

I knew better than to take it back and go screaming that I was raped when I consented to it, but the 17, 18, and older guys that I was messing around with when I was 14, 15, 16 were CREEPS.

Blas, I'm sorry that you regret bits of your adolescence and that you encountered boys who make you feel the way you do now. But it seems like you are letting your emotions cloud the situation. The boys you encountered are boys you perceived as creeps. You had up-close, personal experience with them. You had more ability to make personality calls because you dealt with them personally. Have you ever met the boy in question? What qualifies you to say these same things about them as you did about the boys in your experience?

I, too, have a personal slant for my reasoning and argument. My little brother was one of those guys who was a little older, but dating younger girls. And do you know why he did it? That so-called "bullshit" reason that I gave you in my first response. He was very immature and did not get along with his own age group. Even when he was seventeen, he related to the fourteen and fifteen year olds far more than he did with his peers. He had some developmental delay, but nothing serious. He just did not progress at the same rate as the other boys.

I could very easily see him being in a situation like this. Being a boy of that age, he wasn't exactly the smartest and did not excel at linking cause and effect. If he liked a girl, he would have done what came naturally, if she wanted to. It did get him into trouble. But every time it did, he was heartbroken because he did it because he liked the girl. He didn't do it to get some tail or use his influence over someone naive and easy. He was a bit of an idiot, like a lot of boys that age, but that did not make him a creep, or a perv, or a scuzzball. Yet, if this article had been about him and not the other boy, you would likely be saying the same kinds of things about him, without knowing his motivation, without stopping to see past your own experiences, as hurtful and shameful as they may be.

A lot of other girls my age didn't when we were younger. A lot of girls DON'T. You cannot deny that, and you cannot deny that there is something a little strange about a popular 18 year old boy picking a 14 year old girl over a girl his own age. I doubt it was common interests or bubbling personalities that were attracted.

Yeah, I said MOST. Not all. Take a chill pill and read the whole thing next time.

Again, why do you doubt that they connected because of common interests or personality synchronization? Do you know the depths of their relationship? Not all girls with the same age gaps as you go through the same experience as you. Yes, some do, and that's unfortunate. But some don't, and such hateful name-calling of those involved could seriously detriment their lives. If he doesn't like the consequences, he shouldn't have done it. I agree. It's too bad that he didn't think ahead to what might have happened. But he was a teenager, he was in high school. Very few teenagers are masters of cause and effect at that age. What should be a learning experience and a lesson in what is and is not appropriate becomes a self-destroying experience because of people with darkened pasts so ready and willing to vilify the supposed bad guy.

I know you said most, not all. Most is 99% as bad as all. It still means you are making snap judgments and condemning a kid for things you couldn't possibly know. I will admit to the possibility of him just being a total ass and using this girl. Some people are not nice, good people. I would be willing to accept that diagnosis of his personality if I were presented evidence for it. All I'm asking is that you recognize the very real possibility that there might not have been malicious intent, that he might have just been a kid who made some bad decisions, like you admit to making. Don't judge so harshly without knowing more than you do.

[blas87]

Thank you for explaining and I am sorry it was difficult for your brother. I can only imagine what it's like to be a boy.

I am sorry if I let my own personal experiences or family's experiences weigh heavy on my heart and into these discussions, but it's all I have to go on.

That and things just haven't changed in the years since I've grown up. I realize girls mature faster than boys (in fact, I'd say some boys never do :P ) but in my experience and from what I see and hear, boys are still boys.

Not too many years ago, this would put me at about 20....my guy friends were still screwing around with 16-17 year old girls, and then they'd whine about all the problems and hassle it was to date them. I asked why they insisted on dating younger girls. One reason was because girls their age wanted older guys. Ok, fair enough. The other reason? Younger girls liked to be with them, and younger girls were more apt to try "new things" if you get my drift (and yes, pardon the TMI but I was the same way back then) and girls their own age were a little too smart for their own good about the guys' intentions, whereas the younger girls thought it was just flattering and oh-so-cool that an older guy wanted to be with them (hey, that sounds familiar).

I will stay strong on my opinion, but I thank you for explaining your experience and respect your opinion as well.

Although perhaps we ought to just quit fighting about older guys and younger girls and these stupid tidbits when this poor girl can't find eternal peace because some people just won't leave it alone

I have not gone back to the page, but I did join the petition, a seperate link. I noticed some others had, too.

[Plaidman]

Oops he did it again. Seems Joseph Tarnopolski once again fell in love with someone under age, and once again slept with her, and now she's saying rape too. All within what, a month since his great love died?

http://www.thenewsherald.com/article...9319274461.txt


Or something very siminular. So it's likely just plain ol statory rape again. Then hopefully this time the girl's hater's won't hear only rape and go on an assult charges against her too.

[Plaidman]

More detailed site on it too.

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...vestigate.html

[Andara Bledin]

Or something very siminular. So it's likely just plain ol statory rape again. Then hopefully this time the girl's hater's won't hear only rape and go on an assult charges against her too.

There's actually mention of a second girl in the original article; it's part of the update that includes the information that the accusation of actual rape from Kelly was a fabrication.

And it's not about "haters only hearing rape" in Kelly's case because she actually changed her story after the charges were first laid to actually say she was raped.

I found another article over at DetNews.com regarding the situation. It includes this very interesting quote:

In statements given by both Tarnopolski and Samantha, they described a relationship that began through Internet social networking and evolved into a meeting at his home on Sept. 26, where Samantha told detectives she was determined to lose her virginity. Samantha also surprised police by telling them she had hoped her mother would catch her.

These do not sound like the words of a girl who could be considered either naive or impressionable. The girl got exactly what it was she wanted, and then she and her mother went on a witch hunt against the boy who was foolish enough to break the law and help her.

The article also mentions that the second complaint was filed on October 22, 2 days after Kelly and her mother appeared on local TV regarding the situation. It has been under investigation since that time, and Tarnopolski has since withdrawn from school.

It saddens me that with the wealth of information we all have at our fingertips, so many are willing to accept and act on the first report they encounter without taking time to verify or even reflect.

^-.-^

[tropicsgoddess]

That is just utterly horrible that they would still do this to her even after she took her own life and how her so-called friends sold her out. Heartless monsters...I hope they rot in hell!

[Andara Bledin]

That is just utterly horrible that they would still do this to her even after she took her own life and how her so-called friends sold her out. Heartless monsters...I hope they rot in hell!

You should go back and read the story again.

She sold him out, which is why her friends ditched her.

I fully agree that the crap that's still going on with the Facebook pages and what is reputed to have gone on at the school (we still only have her and her mother's word for that, and both have proven to be honesty-impaired) should neither be condoned nor allowed to continue.

^-.-^

[Aethian]

Just tried clicking on both of the facebook pages and they just took me to my own facebook page so I believe they have been taken down.