Being felt up at the airport

[protege]

First off, if you can't drive or take the bus or the train...how do you plan on getting to the airport?

Let's see...locally we have taxi service, various limousine companies, shuttle buses...all of which stop at the airport for a small fee.

And why would a plane be more accessible than the train or driving?

Depends on how far they're going. In several places in the northeast US, planes and trains are actually pretty competitive, time-wise. In fact, Amtrak actually markets their Acela services as being the plane's alternative. Those trains can hit 150mph (only 135 south of NYC because of overhead-wire issues). Meaning, that NYC-Boston is 3.5 hours, and NYC-DC is 2.75 hours. It's possible to leave one city in the morning, arrive in another, have your meeting, and be home before dinner.

Blas, that's already been done. Quite a few people didn't fly right after 9/11. Either because of terrorism fears, or because the long lines at the security checkpoints. I had to fly to Albany, NY the week after. Let me tell you, that it was a bit strange. The usually busy Pittsburgh airport was nearly deserted, other than the lines at security. Many flights were canceled, and a couple of big lines (Delta and United) found themselves in trouble. UAL was already heading towards bankruptcy, USAir in 2002, and Delta in 2004. 9/11 wasn't the *sole* cause of their problems, but it certainly didn't help.

[Andara Bledin]

I wonder what would happen if a whole bunch of people decided not to fly, at least not for a long time.

From what I can understand, there are already quite a few people who are banding together in an effort to show the airports that such screenings are unacceptable, and taking alternate routes.

Hell, one option that pretty much makes the scanners completely useless is to take a connecting flight from a smaller place that doesn't use them, and connect inside the security perimeter of one that does.

^-.-^

[Plaidman]

I'm for it. Cause it means I get to be groped by the hot stewerts in their little miniskirts. Something that I'd normally have to pay thousands of dollars.

[Greenday]

Ok, what I'm trying to get at, is that flying in a plane is not a necessity. You don't need it to live. THAT'S why it's your choice to either take the scans or don't fly. And that's why it's not a 4th Amendment violation. Because it's not being forced on you.

[ditchdj]

Ok, what I'm trying to get at, is that flying in a plane is not a necessity. You don't need it to live. THAT'S why it's your choice to either take the scans or don't fly. And that's why it's not a 4th Amendment violation. Because it's not being forced on you.

Yeah but where does it STOP???? They're starting to bring them to stadiums. What's next??? Train stations? Then bus stops? Roadside checkpoints at state lines and highways going in and out of cities??? Then what's next? Warrantless door-to-door searches???

Because I will NOT stand for the latter. I do NOT feel like I HAVE to prove to the public that I'm not a terrorist or a criminal just so someone else can "feel safe" whenever I move from Point A to Point B inside my own country. I don't have to prove anything to anyone but myself.

[Greenday]

Mass transit stations have decent reasoning. Stadiums have decent reasoning, but it'll kill revenue. Otherwise, you'll never see them on roads or something like that. It's an extremist argument involving something that will never happen.

[Rapscallion]

That's not an accurate comparison. The body scanners pump your skin up with the amount of radiation that is considered 'safe' to be administered through the entire body, all within a very, very short amount of time. We simply don't have the kind of research on this to know how safe it is for us to us, we have no research from neutral sources, we have zero research on the long term affects of this kind of exposure to our skin and tissue, and we simply have no means of determining if the machines are outputting even the amount of energy we're told they are. It's a cancerous powder keg waiting to happen.

The energy that gets distributed throughout the entire body - just how does it get there? Something about the logic involved in the complaint they make irks me. Doesn't make as much sense as I'd like, unless I missed something.

Rapscallion

[Greenday]

The x-rays? They penetrate the skin into your body.

[ditchdj]

Mass transit stations have decent reasoning. Stadiums have decent reasoning, but it'll kill revenue. Otherwise, you'll never see them on roads or something like that. It's an extremist argument involving something that will never happen.

Hehehehehe Oh yes you will.....

........if a coporation stands to make a shitload of money. Especially if the company happens to be associated with Halliburton!

[Rapscallion]

The x-rays? They penetrate the skin into your body.

Yeah, that's the bit bothering me. I'll admit to not being an expert, but aren't they going to hit the skin most of all anyway?

Rapscallion

[Greenday]

Yeah, that's the bit bothering me. I'll admit to not being an expert, but aren't they going to hit the skin most of all anyway?

Rapscallion

No, skin doesn't stop x-rays. That's why we use them to view stuff inside the body, like when you break bones.

[Andara Bledin]

Mass transit stations have decent reasoning. Stadiums have decent reasoning, but it'll kill revenue. Otherwise, you'll never see them on roads or something like that. It's an extremist argument involving something that will never happen.

I remember, back when I was still a wee bairn the same thing being said when they first started searching women's purses at concerts. Except nothing happened because there is a high enough percentage of the population that is happy to go along being complacent little sheople to completely mitigate the outrage of those who would fight the encroachment upon our rights.

Yeah, that's the bit bothering me. I'll admit to not being an expert, but aren't they going to hit the skin most of all anyway?

It all depends on the wavelength and focus of the x-rays.

When one says "x-rays" most people think of the type of systems that are in place to highlight damage to bones and teeth. These types of x-ray go through the entire body and what is not absorbed by bone and tooth is captured on the other side. That's why you have an insert in your mouth for dental x-rays; it's there to both capture the image as well as block the radiation from progressing beyond the point necessary to create it.

There are actually two types of scanners, the other being a millimeter wave scanner. As far as anyone knows, those are safe. Since both appear to do the same quality job, one must ask whey they continue to use the x-ray scanners and don't swap over entirely to the millimeter wave scanners, about which we are hearing nothing as regards safety.

Here's a link to an interesting transcript of an interview over at NPR:
Are Airport Scanners Safe?

Here's a link to an article at the Seattle Times that mentions Chertoff's connection to the manufacturer of the x-ray backscatter machines:
Lawmakers jump late into airport-scanner uproar

^-.-^

[jackfaire]

One thing people ignore when they compare security on air travel to every other form of travel is that air travel is the only one that is efficient to weaponize.

Put plane into air point and crash. The only way to stop it from the outside of the plane is to shoot it down.

Automobiles you can put people at check points at secure areas. Trains are limited by the tracks they can go on meaning if your target isn't tied into the system your screwed.

Planes have few restrictions preventing them from being turned into weapons. If you don't like that then buy 20 Zepllins and start an airline.

[Plaidman]

If you don't like that then buy 20 Zepllins and start an airline.

Cough. Not such a good idea...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F54rqDh2mWA

[jackfaire]

Cough. Not such a good idea...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F54rqDh2mWA

The Hindenberg was filled with Hydrogen and 2 parts stupidity. There other ways of keeping a Zepplin in the air that won't kill people.