Medical Choices

[Will-Mun]

So it's been a while since I been on Fratching, I made a few good threads I like to thing, the meaning of free speech, the effects of violent media on society, and a couple others I can't recall this second. So let me dive right in with something that just sparked.

I want to talk about the decision of life altering surgery, specifically birth control, and who's choice it is to make. I was reminded of this by a thread in the main boards.

A while ago I admitted my wish to NOT have children to a friend of mine, and that I have actually looked into Vasectomies (very vaguely looked), and when I had the cash might actually GET one.... Because I don't want kids...Period.

My friend told me that they would never allow it, that I was too young and no doctor would ever preform the procedure... This ticked me off...

I have made up my mind, I don't LIKE kids, I never have, I feel uncomfortable around kids, and do not wish to spawn... This is my choice, and because I happen to be under a certain age I'm being rejected from the only way to ensure I can't plant pod?

I was wondering what everyone else's opinion was?

[Pedersen]

This is my choice, and because I happen to be under a certain age I'm being rejected from the only way to ensure I can't plant pod?

Well, to nitpick, it's one of the only two ways to ensure you can't plant pod. The other one, and it's even more foolproof, is abstinence.

Before the flamage comes, allow me to state this: I don't believe that you should have to live a life of abstinence simply to avoid having kids. We have choices in this day and age, and should be able to make them.

However, I have to be a jerk and point out that there is another form of birth control, and it's 100% guaranteed effective.

[Will-Mun]

It's also trying to fight against millions of years of evolution and programing. People are hard wired to have sex, abstinence may be 100% effective, but it's without a DOUBT the hardest to practice willingly.


But yes, I of course am talking about people choosing to have an active sex life, and wanting to ensure they cannot spread seed.

[Greenday]

I have no desire to have kids at all. For the most part, I don't like kids. I love my little cousins, I really do. But the five year old makes me want to tear my hair out. I can't even imagine if I had to live with him every day of my life. I know this is something that will never change. I just do not want kids. If getting snipped means no kids, then I'm all for it. Snip it to shreds. But, being 20, I'm curious as to the intensity of the BS the doctors will throw at me.

[the_std]

Hey Will-Mun, you might have a chance yet - my boyfriend had just turned twenty when he got his vasectomy done, and they didn't ask him a lot of weird questions... They booked a consultation, talked about the effects and the procedure and asked him to take some time to think about it. He called them back a week later and they didn't second-guess him, so... If you live in Calgary, AB, he can recommend you a great vasectomy clinic.

And, just to let you know, there's another thread like this one on this board already: http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=204

[Amethyst Hunter]

Well, to nitpick, it's one of the only two ways to ensure you can't plant pod. The other one, and it's even more foolproof, is abstinence.

If you're a female, abstinence doesn't count for shit if you get raped though.

I'm celibate by choice myself and would like to get sterilized simply for peace of mind - I've known since at least my teen years that I wasn't interested at all in having kids and there is NO way in hell I'll be forced to do so if God forbid I was attacked and insult was added to injury. And on the off chance I ever did meet someone I'd seriously consider spending my life with, that question would already be dealt with. (For anyone who's ever gotten the bingo "What if you meet a man/woman who wants kids?" just tell them "The right person for me won't want kids either!")

I would write out a long list - a childfree manifesto, if you will - detailing all the reasons why one does not want kids and refuting all the bingoes (i.e., the kind of comments that go "but you'll change your mind"), and show this to the doctor(s). The more ammo you have in your sterilization consultation, the better your chances of getting it, because it will show that you've considered the decision with the seriousness it deserves. Many doctors don't want to do it not just out of a cultural prejudice but because it's a CYA measure - those few idiots that went and got themselves done and then turned around and sued their doctors when *they* changed their minds (which only tells me that they didn't really think things through in the first place) ruined things for those of us who are stone-serious about being CF, and now all doctors have to protect their own asses from stupid lawsuits.

And, sad but true: men ARE going to statistically have a much easier time getting sterilized than women will. Mainly because that plumbing's simpler to deal with. So, ladies, don't give up and don't take no for an answer - it's a bitch finding doctors that will take YOU seriously, but the results are well worth it if this is the path you want to take.

[Seshat]

If you're a female, abstinence doesn't count for shit if you get raped though.

Men can be raped in a way which ends up impregnating, too - but it's much less likely. I still wouldn't consider abstinence 100% effective.

[Boozy]

I would write out a long list - a childfree manifesto, if you will - detailing all the reasons why one does not want kids and refuting all the bingoes...

Please tell me that you don't stand there and play point-counterpoint with some rude boor who thinks your reproduction is any of their damned business.

I have one standard response to people who ask when I plan to have children: "Thank you for your concern, but that is between my husband and myself."

[crazylegs]

With male sterilisation you can store sperm for a very long time, so extract them by whatever means, freeze them (I believe this is possible, correct me if I'm wrong) and store them.

Have the procedure then if you do change your mind you still have access to the little soldiers.

[Amethyst Hunter]

Please tell me that you don't stand there and play point-counterpoint with some rude boor who thinks your reproduction is any of their damned business.

No, no. This is strictly for *doctor's* use - most doctors, when you tell them you want to be sterilized and that you don't want kids, will automatically come back at you with any/all of the following:

"What if you change your mind?"
"Who will you have taking care of you when you get old?"
"It's not natural for a woman to not want kids."
"What if your husband/wife/significant other wants kids?"
"What if you meet someone who wants kids?"
"You're too young to make that kind of decision." (But not too young to decide to have kids?? Fucked-up logic at its worst, I tell you) **edited for clarification, my bad!**

And so on. A detailed explanation to each of these questions (and others like them) will show the doctor that you've carefully thought over your decision to undergo a *permanent* procedure and make it that more likely that the doctor will take you at your word (i.e., less hoops to have to jump through in order to get what you want).

Anyone else, be they friend, family or foe - they don't need to know about your personal plumbing (unless, of course, you want them to).

[Boozy]

Thanks for clarifying, AH!

I do think its sad that men and women need to "convince" their doctors to do what they want in terms of their bodies and their reproductive rights.

Its certainly not unusual for men in their youth to dislike children. Its a natural urge to resist being tied down. My husband in his early 20's always swore he'd never have children. Now he wants children (arguably) even more that I do. People's minds can change.

Personally, I would advise that men be patient and wait until they're at least in their 30's. Apparently, men who have a vasectomy in their 20's are 12 times as likely to get it reversed (and not always successfully) as men who wait until they are older.

So I do understand where some of these doctors are coming from. But the important thing here is whose decision this is to make, and it sure as hell isn't the doctors. Their job is not to make decisions for people, it is to provide health care. If a young man decides to get a vasectomy, that is his right.

[Zyanya]

Personally, I would advise that men be patient and wait until they're at least in their 30's. Apparently, men who have a vasectomy in their 20's are 12 times as likely to get it reversed (and not always successfully) as men who wait until they are older.

If you might change your mind, put some sperm on ice. It's better than getting 'oopsed'.

[Greenday]

Personally, I would advise that men be patient and wait until they're at least in their 30's. Apparently, men who have a vasectomy in their 20's are 12 times as likely to get it reversed (and not always successfully) as men who wait until they are older.

I'd still go with a vasecoemy now. I've been going out with my girlfriend for almost two months now. She's told me she always wanted to adopt kids, but if she gets pregnant herself, that's fine too. I'm perfectly happy with adopting if I for some reason ever decide I want kids. The world is overpopulated anyway.