Who Is To Blame?

[blas87]

I didn't want to jack the thread about the caffeinated alcohol, but there was something emerging in that thread.

When young adults (or even adults in their mid to even later 20s) make certain screw ups*, would you blame them or their parents?

Do you think helicopter and enabler parents are to blame for setting them up for that kind of trouble or failure or do you think it should be a natural right vs wrong that the adult should already know?

* = beyond just the underaged drinking or irresponsible drinking, can also include things like drug abuse, legal troubles, or even things like financial irresponsibility, lack of budgeting, Failure to Launch, etc etc etc etc etc

[Greenday]

First and foremost, when people screw up, it is primarily a problem of personal responsibility. We are completely autonomous creatures. We make our own decisions and in the end, no one else makes them for us. We may agree with other people's suggestions and ideas, but we make that choice.

Now, when you have parents that don't let you do anything for youself and never let you do anything period, that's is a major contributor. You don't learn the lessons you should have learned. So when someone leads a sheltered life and goes crazy, there is a lot more blame to be added to the parents.

Still, it's a matter of personal choices and in the 21st century, there's little that is impossible for people not to know, especially by the time they are a teenager.

[blas87]

You make several good points.

I'm a little torn because I'm a firm believer in common sense and knowing right from wrong, but I am dating a guy whose parents are the biggest enablers I have ever seen in my entire life. Not sheltering or helicopters, but enablers, human door mats and that has given me a slightly different perspective after seeing two parents still raising a 27 year old son.

Oh, edit to add: That's not my bf I am talking about, it's his brother. Although their parents do enable my bf quite a bit, nowhere near as bad as his brother. Bf has lived on his own and will once again one day soon. His brother will probably never leave.

[Greenday]

Ooh, I hate enablers. Encouraging bad behavior is stupid. Certain people may be more prone to making bad decisions, but there's no reason to make it easier to make those bad decisions.

[Andara Bledin]

I saw this a bit while growing up with my brother, and got a much bigger dose with my former husband.

Mom, for various reasons and with the best of intentions, was an enabler for Brother. He knew how to do things on his own, but if he had any situation where he could be a leech, he would and Mom wouldn't do anything to correct his behavior. At first, it was her fault he would do it, but after he'd been successfully on his own, the problem was as much his as hers.

Former Hubby, on the other hand, was adopted, diabetic, uncoordinated, and probably naturally left-handed. His parents, rather than making any sort of effort to teach him how to be able to resist or defend himself from harassment by other kids or be self-sufficient in any manner only taught him how to hide behind her skirts or try to buy people to be friends with him and that Mother would take care of everything he ever needed.

Then he turned 18. That was the magic point where he was an adult and should know how (by osmosis?) to do everything that up until that point she'd taken care of for him. He had no discipline, no restraint, and no real idea of the consequences of his actions, because he'd never really been allowed to make any actions of his own until that point.

I didn't realize when we got together that I would have to be as much a parent for him, teaching him how to do things for himself, but also a spouse. By the time we split up, however, any remaining lack of maturity was his own resistance to growing up and not any longer his mother's fault.

These days, he's actually doing quite well for himself and his wife. I strongly suspect that the last hospital trip was a real wake-up call for the both of them.

^-.-^

[blas87]

My bf's brother, among being plagued with ADD, also has neurological lyme disease and now has been diagnosed with Bartonella (sp?).

This excuses him never having to do a god. damned. thing. And I literally mean a god damned thing. Not even take out any garbage or even clean the bathroom sink or a toilet or keep, let alone get a job. All he does is go to school and he has full control of the house, basically gets to tell off his own parents who OWN the house that they are too loud and he wants to sleep.

But when he gets into his silly moods, he yells, screams, and sings obnoxiously, sometimes even at 4 or 5 am (he has very odd sleep patterns), and his parents just tolerate it. They tolerate how he treats my bf if he gets in his way or pisses him off. They tolerate everything he does because they are scared if they kick him out or lay down any rules or make him do anything, he'll either run off or hurt himself or God forbid try to commit suicide, because he has threatened that multiple times.

Sorry, had to unload.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I remember reading a story in a magazine about a girl who took exctasy and who died from it. Her parents immediately launched a crusade to find the dealer who had sold her the drug and get him punished.

While I agree that a dealer in illegal drugs is breaking the law and deserves punishment, they completely missed the whole personal responsibility thing as regards to their daughter, painting her as an innocent victim of this dastardly dealer. In actual fact, the girl had approached the dealer, asked for the drug and had bought it then later taken it, knowing that it was exctasy and an illegal drug. Her drink wasn't spiked or anything; she willingly took the drug and therefore, must share in the blame along with the dealer.

This attitude isn't uncommon; it seems that everyone must always find someone to be solely to blame for a disaster and it can't ever be their pwecious diddums.

[blas87]

Exactly, Lace. Now this is a problem with my bf alongside his brother.....there is always someone or something to blame or excuse. I think part of them being raised the way they were, they never had to deal with consequences or be really at fault.

It's one way bf and I butt heads, because I accept responsibility and don't blame others for things I've done wrong, because I was raised to take responsibility and that people can be wrong and make mistakes.

Really interesting, their sister was pushed and pushed and the world was expected out of her, and now she lives over 1,000 miles away. But she is more of an adult than the two of them ever will be.

[Rageaholic]

Interesting topic.

I think it depends on how much influence the parents have. Like with helicopter parents, if they never let their children grow, and they only have mom and dad as their influence, how is it the kids fault if they don't know how to do certain things? Also, if the parents are drinkers or drug abusers, that can cause serious psychological damage. If the kids pick up their parents habit, I can't see how they are to blame.

Of course, there comes a time when you gotta think for yourself. Either get help or do something, but that's not always as easy as it is for some as it is others. Once those options become available, I can't say the kids are blameless anymore.

Basically, if they don't know better because their parents fucked up with them, I can't say they are to blame, but if they do know better, than they are to blame.

[blas87]

What if they act like or pretend they don't know better, the parents won't pick up on it or refuse to acknowledge it, but outsiders know it's an act?

[Rageaholic]

What if they act like or pretend they don't know better, the parents won't pick up on it or refuse to acknowledge it, but outsiders know it's an act?

Than the kids are manipulative little bastards, but that's why it's hard to tell.

[blas87]

Manipulative mentally and physically little bastard, he sure is.

I honestly feel so bad for my boyfriend. He has his faults and God knows I bitch about him enough, but his home life is just terrible. But then again, if he'd quit going out or spending money on stupid stuff, he could save for his own place and his brother could happily live with his parents until they die and he's out of luck.

[Eisa]

Hmm. I know exactly what you're talking about, as my parents were...well, in a word, horrible. They were abusive and neglectful in just about every possible way [yes, that means what you think it means ]. They let my sister nearly kill me. Literally. On several occasions, she tried to choke me to death, either by wrapping a plastic bag around my neck and tightening it, or by slamming my head against the wall as she throttled me. We had to take several trips to urgent care because my wrists and fingers might have been broken. I had x-rays.

My parents labeled it all as "sibling rivalry." And only told me I should fight back. BUT if I DID fight back, it was all my fault and I was punished because I was older. I also basically had to parent her.

At the same time, everything I ever did was harshly criticized. Nothing was ever done right. As a result, I pretty much became terrified to ever do ANYTHING new. New stuff is STILL scary to me. Super sheltered.

Then I turned 18 and they all of a sudden wanted me to do everything on my own properly, when they were the ones who fucked me up in the first place!

Didn't go crazy, but definitely "behind" on stuff I should do...however, now I'm living in the dorm so I'm out of their house, I'm getting a job next semester, and I graduate with my B.A. in psychology next semester.

Pretty much no thanks to any of my family lol.

It's hard when your parents are enablers and/or toxic and/or what else have you. When they don't prepare you for life at all.

[blas87]

I think my bf's brother was messed up before he got lyme, because he tried to kill (I mean literally kill) my bf by smothering him with a pillow, and bf wiggled out and chased him and threw a hammer at his head and knocked him out and of course he got in trouble.

I'm starting to think the verdict of this thread is the parents.

I am so sorry you had to grow up that way. I hope it doesn't stop you from meeting people and making new friends and learning that there are some really great people out there who would never treat you that way

[Andara Bledin]

Pretty much no thanks to any of my family lol.

I'd suggest that's more despite your family.

^-.-^