I'm not surprised at the USA being behind in schools....

[HEMI6point1]

.....But being outranked by Shanghai?

Link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/#40558253

Okay, here's my .02 on how we need to get better ranked:

1. Stop summer vacation and make kids go to school year-round. Out of 365 days a year a school year in the US is only around 180 days!

2. Stop hiring crappy teachers that look more at home on Page 3 then in a classroom just because they.... look like a page 3 girl. (Seriously, I had someone tell me that a school would rather hire an attractive woman than an ugly chick because it gets the students to want to go to her class). BTW I'm not saying that good-looking women can't be good teachers, but you know what I mean by this.

3. Stop social promotion. If a kid's feelings get hurt because he/she did crappy and is going to be left back, well then sucks to be him/her.

4. I heard somewhere that some schools want to lower the minimum passing grades for tests saying they're "too tough." Give me a break.

And something about college...

Drop the damn prerequisites. If someone wants to go to college to get a degree in - for example - electrical engineering, why should they have to go through several months to a year of writing term papers on George Washington and Shakespeare first? Colleges should get right down to the meat of what the student is trying to accomplish: get a degree is his/her chosen field. Dropout rates would go down and the number of enrollments would increase.

[ditchdj]

(Seriously, I had someone tell me that a school would rather hire an attractive woman than an ugly chick because it gets the students to want to go to her class).

Wouldn't happen to be one of the goofballs on Fox News would it????

Hemi.......I really think you should try working in a school for a few days to see what it's REALLY LIKE! Sign up to be a substitute teacher, or volunteer. See what the kids are like and how inept a lot of "parents" are.

[Eisa]

I actually think that the general ed requirements in college are a good idea. Yeah, they feel a bit ridiculous sometimes, but I think it's good to be open to other fields and classes. Plus, what about the people who don't know what they want to major in? Or the people who are in one major, take a class 'cause it's required for gen eds, and switch majors because they like it so much? I also don't think it's a good idea to narrow your specialization so far...especially considering the number of people who get a degree in one thing while in college and get a job in something completely different.

[AdminAssistant]

Drop the damn prerequisites. If someone wants to go to college to get a degree in - for example - electrical engineering, why should they have to go through several months to a year of writing term papers on George Washington and Shakespeare first? Colleges should get right down to the meat of what the student is trying to accomplish: get a degree is his/her chosen field. Dropout rates would go down and the number of enrollments would increase.

The vast majority that will dropout do so in the first year, before most have even taken any classes in their desired field. First of all, English Comp MUST be a requirement and should be even more stringent, seeing as how so many so-called college students can barely write in their own language.

I think our colleges would be improved by higher admission standards, a slight trimming of gen eds with more student choices (an art student can opt for a social science instead of physics, for example), and a general redirection of funds. College students don't need a hair and tanning salon in the student union. One rec center/gym should be plenty. Also, attendance should be taken in every class, and professors should make sure that their classes are worth attending everyday. A reduction in the importance of student evaluations to the promotion and tenure process, which will reduce grade inflation. And the public execution of plagiarizers.

Okay, maybe not that last one.

K-12 public schools are much different, of course, but we do need to extend the time that students are in class. I was asking a Korean friend if he played any sports or participated in other extracurricular activities in high school. He blinked and said, "There wasn't time, we would stay at school until 10 pm studying." Yeah, how are we going to compete with that?

[Rageaholic]

1. Stop summer vacation and make kids go to school year-round. Out of 365 days a year a school year in the US is only around 180 days!

BAD idea. At least where I live, Schools are 7 hours a day, 5 days a week. That's 1260 hours a year, and that's not counting homework and extra ciricular activities. Instead of increasing time spent in school, why not use it more wisely. If we eliminate the filler assignments, that time can be used more wisely.

2. Stop hiring crappy teachers that look more at home on Page 3 then in a classroom just because they.... look like a page 3 girl. (Seriously, I had someone tell me that a school would rather hire an attractive woman than an ugly chick because it gets the students to want to go to her class). BTW I'm not saying that good-looking women can't be good teachers, but you know what I mean by this.

I can't argue this. I've always hated how looks play a role in what jobs you get, but that applies with all fields.

3. Stop social promotion. If a kid's feelings get hurt because he/she did crappy and is going to be left back, well then sucks to be him/her.

4. I heard somewhere that some schools want to lower the minimum passing grades for tests saying they're "too tough." Give me a break.

Agree with this to an extent. I think Bush's No Child Left Behind was a disaster, but I've learned that there's a higher suicide rate in Japan because their culture shuns those who don't live up to the incredibly high standard. This should only be taken too far. While students shouldn't always win, losing doesn't have to be the end of the world.

My basic philosophy is this, everyone is different, with different strengths and weaknesses. If we set a standard where everyone has to be this or that to succeed, those who are talented in Y may be left out just because they struggle with X. It's something I've personally experienced and it's annoying.

And something about college...

Drop the damn prerequisites. If someone wants to go to college to get a degree in - for example - electrical engineering, why should they have to go through several months to a year of writing term papers on George Washington and Shakespeare first? Colleges should get right down to the meat of what the student is trying to accomplish: get a degree is his/her chosen field. Dropout rates would go down and the number of enrollments would increase.

AMEN AMEN AMEN!! A topic I'm so passionate about, I've started 2 threads on it! I think all the gen ed stuff should be covered in school. That way college students will already have their gen ed taken care of and will be free to explore subjects they are interested in.

As it is now, I can't argue against some gen eds (english, science, and maybe one humanities), but the amount of them needed is ridiculous. Especially classes like literature that I know I will never be interested in, let alone consider a career in. If I want to take it, fine, but don't tell me I need it for an accounting career.

[Amanita]

All the gen ed stuff is what's turning me off from going back to school. I'm sorry, but if you require me to take physics and advanced math, I'm gonna fail. I couldn't do that stuff before, what makes anyone think I'm gonna magically succeed at it now?

[Greenday]

1. Stop summer vacation and make kids go to school year-round. Out of 365 days a year a school year in the US is only around 180 days!

Maybe another month. Kids need time off though. Plus school every week will lead to higher taxes which no one is cool with.

2. Stop hiring crappy teachers that look more at home on Page 3 then in a classroom just because they.... look like a page 3 girl. (Seriously, I had someone tell me that a school would rather hire an attractive woman than an ugly chick because it gets the students to want to go to her class). BTW I'm not saying that good-looking women can't be good teachers, but you know what I mean by this.

Since when do schools do this? I didn't have any hot teachers until high school and they were actually the best teachers.

3. Stop social promotion. If a kid's feelings get hurt because he/she did crappy and is going to be left back, well then sucks to be him/her.

I agree with this. Doing bad is supposed not supposed to make you feel good.

Drop the damn prerequisites. If someone wants to go to college to get a degree in - for example - electrical engineering, why should they have to go through several months to a year of writing term papers on George Washington and Shakespeare first? Colleges should get right down to the meat of what the student is trying to accomplish: get a degree is his/her chosen field. Dropout rates would go down and the number of enrollments would increase.

Or, we do what AA said and make it even tougher to get into schools. Requirements are so low that a bachelors degree today is equal to a high school degree years ago. If kids can't make it through four years of college all because they couldn't hack it writing some BS essays and taking some BS classes for a year, then why would any job think they could last long-term for their business.

[Racket_Man]

BAD idea. At least where I live, Schools are 7 hours a day, 5 days a week. That's 1260 hours a year, and that's not counting homework and extra ciricular activities. Instead of increasing time spent in school, why not use it more wisely. If we eliminate the filler assignments, that time can be used more wisely.

why is it that we in the US are STILL using the outdated agricultural calendar for the school year????? my daughter was in a "allyear round school" and did quite well. they had 6 weeks break during the summer and 3 trimesters during the school year with 2 or 3 week breaks inbetween

I can't argue this. I've always hated how looks play a role in what jobs you get, but that applies with all fields.

hmmmm I do not know what schools you are familiar but in my school days I had mostly ugly nuns and old lady teachers in grade school (late 60's and early 70's) , teachers of all sizes, shapes, body types, and degree of attractivness in HS and College. and judging from the teachers in my daughters HS (just 5 years ago) the same thing applied. there were not supermodel types (male or female) teaching at any school she attended. just your general mix body types.

[Eisa]

^maybe 'cause at least around here, a lot of kids ARE needed for harvest...?

[fireheart17]

My views on each:

1. Easier to do it like we do, bearing in mind holidays and such will be different: start at end of January, finish early-mid December, 4 terms of 10 weeks each, with 2-week breaks in March/April, July and September/October. Year 11 and 12 students get out accordingly.

2. A-friggin-men. And also more male teachers. I'm female, but I'm sick of seeing the whole "he's a male, he wants to work with children, ZOMG pedophile!" line.

3. Ditto.

4. Keep it at 50%. Kid doesn't pass, too bad so sad.

5. Can't say anything on this as the college system in the US is vastly different to Ausland.

[Boozy]

1. Stop summer vacation and make kids go to school year-round. Out of 365 days a year a school year in the US is only around 180 days!

It's been found that adding school hours to the curriculum (beyond a certain point) does not improve academic performance, and in many cases, decreases it. I'll try to dig up a link when I have more time.

Kids do a lot of learning outside the classroom. Schools need to provide a framework for understanding and analyzing the world, and then step back.

The problem with US schools is that they don't start early enough. 5 years-old is too damned late. If kids aren't getting intellectual stimulation at home, and many are not, they are going into their first formal school year already handicapped. The focus should be on pre-school programs.

[blas87]

I agree with the gen-ed bullshit.

I will work in a factory for the rest of my life before I ever take a science or beyond basic math class ever again.

[HEMI6point1]

Or, we do what AA said and make it even tougher to get into schools. Requirements are so low that a bachelors degree today is equal to a high school degree years ago. If kids can't make it through four years of college all because they couldn't hack it writing some BS essays and taking some BS classes for a year, then why would any job think they could last long-term for their business.

I was terrible at writing essays in high school. So much so that I would clam up and just shut down. When I graduated, I vowed "never to do that shit again."

You sound like someone I know. I told him that the USA college system should be like the Aussie college system (they get right down the meat of what you're trying to learn, like I proposed in my OP). He told me "The reason why our college system is set up like that is to see if you're willing to put up with stuff you don't really want to do to obtain an ultimate goal which in this case is a degree. If you drop the prerequisites sure you'll have more enrollments but many of those people will be the lazy types who want the easy way out."

[Greenday]

We have people who can't add decimals and fractions. People who can't write a simple essay. People who don't even know the 50 states. People who couldn't even name you one cabinet member. People who don't know who fought in WWII. People who don't even know the Bill of Rights.

Yet you want schools to send these exact people into the world, saying that they are the product of the school's education? If I met multiple people from a school who could do that stuff or answer any of that, I'd be wondering just how good a school it really is.

[IDrinkaRum]

While living in England from 1977-1979, I attended the local school in the village I lived in. It was either that, or being bussed for 1.5 hours to school and then another 1.5 hours home from the military base that we lived "close" to. The base didn't care where I was getting my education, they just cared I was getting educated.

So I went to some school (can't remember the name, and I was living in Banbury at the time).

From what I can remember (and bear in mind I was between the ages of 5 & 7), the school was "year round" but had several breaks for the kids throughout the year. And when Group A had a break, Group B would be in school and so on and so forth.

It did not hurt me. It didn't hurt my parents neither. I don't think a single kid in my school died because of having to go to school year round.

I wouldn't mind the year-round school thing.

The only thing I ask is for my daughter to get a little extra time/help for her tests that she has to take in school.

Also? My daughter's main-stream teacher doesn't use a red pen to mark her homework/tests, but either a blue or black pen! Use the red. It was used when I was growing up (and I'm sure many here remember the red ink pens). It didn't hurt me and it won't hurt my kid (or any of the millions of other kids in the school system).