Gambling and Drinking age: Why 21?

[ditchdj]

ditchdj: MADD sounds like all those other groups that take a stand against important issues. They're well intentioned extremists.

I'd say that sounds about right. I recently read that the founding member of MADD actually quit the organization because she didn't intend for MADD to be a lobbying group dedicated to pushing for more alcohol regulation.

[fireheart17]

We've had arguments going the OTHER way around-not so much the gambling age, more the drinking age and the driving age.

In Australia, the legal age to get your P-Plates (that is, provisional-meaning that you can drive solo but with restrictions, which include zero alcohol, can't go any faster than 100km/h max and can't get more than 3 demerit points) is between 15 and 17, depending on state. Most people get them around 16 or so.

Unfortunately, people seem to be arguing that we should be making the driving age 18 (and will then subsequently bitch when the cost of everything else goes up, since not everyone has a parent/guardian/relative who will stay up until midnight to pick up their kid from a nightfill job) because apparaently 16-year-olds can't drive, or they just hoon around.

They DO however, argue that the drinking age should be 21, since apparaently 18-year-olds (legal age of drinking in Australia) just beat each other up every other weekend....

[McDreidel09]

You can pretty much thank Reagan for the drinking age.

One of my friends had an excellent idea for lowering the drinking age. Instead of just lowering it to 18 right away, every two years, it should be lowered by a year. This would give American society a bit of time to adjust to a lowered drinking age and not cause mass chaos.

[MadMike]

In the US, you are legally considered an adult at age 18. You can vote, smoke, screw, sign up for the military, and have all the legal responsibilitys (good and bad) that an adult has. Except for the right to gamble and the right to drink, for that you have to wait till 21.

And I always thought this was bullshit. Either you're an adult, or you aren't.

They say that anyone under 21 isnt mature enough to drink and not drive.

And yet they're somehow mature enough to get sent off to war to kill or even die for their country.

Some of the increase...is because there are too many stupid people. Ever wonder why Coke machines have warnings not to tip them to attempt to gain free sodas? Simple, some dipshit went ahead and did it...got himself killed, and his family sued Coke... because "there wasn't a warning." Sorry, but give me a fucking break. We should remove all warning labels, and let the problem solve itself

I've always said that if you get hurt or killed as a direct result of something you clearly shouldn't be doing, there should be no recourse.

And no, lowering our property taxes has *not* happened.

And there's a big fucking surprise. Politicians lied to us? Who would have thought? But seriously, I'm glad Governor Fatass is on his way out. He's one of the worst things to happen to PA.

Hell, this is the state that up until recently...you *still* couldn't buy liquor on Sunday, and beer wasn't available at the local grocery store. Up until now, you had to find a licensed beer distributor.

Yes, we're slowly moving into the 20th century on this one. Too bad it's now the 21st century...

We've had arguments going the OTHER way around-not so much the gambling age, more the drinking age and the driving age.

I've heard the argument that the drinking age should be before the driving age, so that people would learn how to drink responsibly before they started driving. I'm not sure I agree with that, but what I know I don't agree with is that the powers that be seem to think that the world will come to an end if a 20-year-old drinks a beer.

I believe someone else mentioned that a lot of the reason underage drinkers overdo it is because the fact that they're not allowed to makes them want to do it even more. I know I was that way. When I'd get access to beer, I'd keep on drinking until I passed out or puked. One time, I had 14 beers (so I was told), and at the time I only weighed about 145 lbs. Believe me, I was hurting the next day. Once I was legal and able to get it anytime I wanted, I didn't get smashed nearly as much as I did before. Do I still overdo it sometimes? Yes, but most of the time I'll just have a couple.

Bottom line -- in my opinion, they should either let you drink when you're 18, or the military should have to keep their damn hands off you until you're 21.

[BigGiant]

I dunno. I am pretty wishy/washy on the drinking age.

I don't buy the "you can go out and die for your Country, but you can't drink" argument...because, well, what does one really have to do with the other?

Does serving in the armed forces automatically give a person some great powers of "responsibility"? No. I know when I was in, I served with quite a few blockheads that shouldn't have been allowed anywhere near alcohol. That doesn't mean they weren't good soldiers...they just weren't the most mature folks. Maturity isn't a necessity for service.

On the other hand, we're so uptight about drinking in the US, I think it is counter productive.

[Andara Bledin]

I'm of the opinion that legal adulthood should be 18. End of discussion.

You can enter into contracts, you can go off to war, you can smoke, there isn't any legitimate reason to not also let you drink and gamble. None.

These are puritanical holdovers that need to be discarded like the outmoded ideas that they are.

Plus, I'm libertarian. We should be teaching our kids how to deal with all the shit out there and then make rational decisions rather than just ban everything that could be dangerous, which does jack squat to actually protect anyone.

^-.-^

[blas87]

There are also people in the military that shouldn't have even been accepted, let alone given a gun.

I need Katt right now for the whole gambling/lottery thing, but AFAIK, there are no casinos owned by white people in Wisconsin.

[Plaidman]

I don't buy the "you can go out and die for your Country, but you can't drink" argument...because, well, what does one really have to do with the other?

Does serving in the armed forces automatically give a person some great powers of "responsibility"? No. I know when I was in, I served with quite a few blockheads that shouldn't have been allowed anywhere near alcohol. That doesn't mean they weren't good soldiers...they just weren't the most mature folks. Maturity isn't a necessity for service.

.

Maturity has nothing to do with it. People in their fifties can still be the most immature assholes around. Can people being responsible is the real goal.

For those in the armed forces? Far more likely to be responsible, if anything due to excessiving training they receive.

What's the lesser evil? Being forced to kill for your country while helping where you can, or drinking a couple of beers with your friends? Why should killing be allowed far earlier before drinking a beer?

People that are drunk can accidently kill yeah, but far less then in warzone.

[MadMike]

I don't buy the "you can go out and die for your Country, but you can't drink" argument...because, well, what does one really have to do with the other?

Both have to do with being an adult, and I think that an irresponsible person with a gun can do a lot more harm than an irresponsible person with a beer. Yeah, an irresponsible person can get behind the wheel of a car, but that's not what I'm talking about. The beer itself is nowhere near as dangerous as the gun.

On the other hand, we're so uptight about drinking in the US, I think it is counter productive.

On this, we agree.

[Eisa]

Ohhhhh, I agree. I'm over 21, and the earliest I drank anything was age 20 at a friend's house [aside from sips from my parents when I was a child]. I think it is stupid to have everything else be 18, but drinking and gambling is 21. There is no reason. There really isn't. People who want to drink are still going to drink--it's not like it matters if you're underage. My campus is dry, and I STILL know of a ton of freshmen--18-year-old freshmen--who drink and, in their words, "get fucked up." And you know what? I don't think it should matter. You can enter into contracts, you can vote, you can drive, you can smoke, you can go to college and not have your parents need to be with you every step of the way...why should drinking be any different?

[Racket_Man]

You can pretty much thank Reagan for the drinking age.

.

not exactly true. The push for a redoing the drinking age back to 21 started in the early to mid 1970's at the US Federal level. every state could set it own drinking age which by "agreed" default was 21. some states, like Illinois and Hawaii set the legal age at 18 (I should know I lived accross the river from from Ill and my HS class went to Hawaii in 1978 for the class trip and there was a big concern about those class members who were 18 at the time of the trip)

Regan may have signed the laws finalizing the hard 21 age but the Federal government used Transportation Money in the late 1970's to "bully" the states into a uniform 21 drinking age. again I should know. the Federal govenment did this as I was turning 18 in 1978 (the year the age went up to 19)

if I can be considered a "legal adult" and fully legally "mature" at 18 to get married, enter into legal and binding contracts, go and kill someone my government considers an "enemy" get credit, buy big ticket items, rent stuff like an apt, legally have consenting sex with another "adult", adopt children, divorce, etc. why not go "all the way"

I know loads of people in my area (as Blas and Irv and a few others who live in my state) who should not even be allowed to look at a container of booze through bulletproof glass.

[Skelly]

As a middle road, or a step towards lowering it for those inclined to do so: Here (Sweden), you're allowed to be SERVED alcohol (ie bars, restaurants, pubs) at 18 (most of the time, there are loopholes which allows you to drink at an even younger age, but whatever). OTOH, you have to be 20 to buy it from the liquor store, with the exception of light beer (3.5% alcohol), which can be bought at 18, and beer and cider up to 2.25%, which doesn't have a legally mandated minimum age to buy, although most stores won't sell to minors).

[MadMike]

the Federal government used Transportation Money in the late 1970's to "bully" the states into a uniform 21 drinking age.

That's another thing I wanted to adress when I posted before, but forgot. It really pisses me off that the federal government is allowed to do this. States are supposed to be able to make their own laws in a lot of cases, but if the federal government doesn't like it, they can bully the states into doing things the way they want them done. What is the point of even having states then?

[smileyeagle1021]

ditchdj: MADD sounds like all those other groups that take a stand against important issues. They're well intentioned extremists morons.

Do you know who is the strongest advocate of limiting liquor licenses in Utah?
If you guessed the LDS church you'd be wrong... it's MADD.
They are so convinced that if you limit the access to alcohol you will reduce drunk driving. They ignore all the evidence that shows most of the worst drunk drivers (you may even be able to go so far as to say that most drunk drivers) aren't people going to restaurants or clubs, but people who have bought large amounts from either a state liquor store (no limits on purchases) or go over to wyoming or nevada and buy a shitload... restaurants and clubs limit how much they sell to individuals, anyone with common sense would be wanting to make the availability of alcohol sales in those controlled environment to be as easy as possible for the very reason that it is controlled. No MADD doesn't care about drunk driving, they want prohibition and they will take whatever small steps they can to get it.

[ditchdj]

That's another thing I wanted to adress when I posted before, but forgot. It really pisses me off that the federal government is allowed to do this. States are supposed to be able to make their own laws in a lot of cases, but if the federal government doesn't like it, they can bully the states into doing things the way they want them done. What is the point of even having states then?

Not to mention that we fought and long, bloody civil war over this very issue.

If we just simply obeyed the Constitution and actually paid attention to the Tenth Amendment there wouldn't be an issue.