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Bartenders/Owners and Moral/Legal Responsibility

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  • Bartenders/Owners and Moral/Legal Responsibility

    Anyone who is sick of it, this is another story influenced by my ex coworker, Drunken Victim. Before he quit his job last week, he had already been doing this, and I'm starting to really wonder some of the moral values of some bartenders and bar owners.

    Now, this bar is a hole in the wall....a dive bar.....an inbreed version of Cheers if you will. Small, owned by a woman and her husband helps her run it. Almost everyone there is a regular who works at the nearby factories and comes there after work in the morning or on the weekends for their various themed parties.

    DV of course has been broke as a joke for quite some time, but it was discovered that he was still able to go to the bar multiple days a week, Fridays he'd go there right after work at 7 am and be there until he was either kicked out by the owner/her husband or if he made it all the way to barclose, and he ALWAYS drove home, or I should say always does because he's still going there.

    How does he afford it, other than by not buying food or paying bills? Because he's considered the "mascot" of this bar, the owner will give him free drinks/shots if he comes. Other patrons (usually people from the factory or his other factory drinking buddies) will also spot him drinks as long as he's there. So he's kind of like a cute girl, doesn't have to pay for hardly any of his drinks.

    And to keep him on their dart and pool league against other bars, the owner pays his way for him (whatever it is they charge per person to play and whatever he drinks) so that he'll keep coming.

    Now, my only experience selling alcohol was a Class B Liquor License at a small gas station, so I never really had to deal with denying sales to drunks or sloppy people, and no one underaged really tried anything with me.

    In my opinion, you have two responsibilities if you sell liquor as a bartender or if you own the bar and run it. You have a legal responsibility (not to sell to someone too drunk and not to sell to underagers) and moral responsibility (not to let people drive drunk, not to serve customers that you know are on probation/parole, not to serve someone who has an out of control drinking problem).

    *DV is not on probation, that's an example from a different bar, where they knowingly allow in and serve people on probation as long as they don't cause any problems. Unfortunately, these people on probation are on it because of alcohol related problems and they eventually DO cause problems and they end up banned or gone for a while*

    Also for the record, I don't know the legality of bartenders/bouncers knowingly allowing in or serving customers on probation, or the legality of serving to someone with an alcohol problem so bad that their health is failing.

    It may be resentment and hatred for him, but at the same time my moral superiority complex I seem to have just tells me that it's beyond wrong as a business owner and an employee in the liquor business to be doing stuff like that. It's unprofessional and even questionable business practice.

  • #2
    It is not up to the purveyors of liquor to moralize or decide what is good for others beyond what is legally mandated.

    They are in it to make money. It's a business.

    Now, if they're knowingly breaking some law, and you know this and believe it's wrong, then you should report them for it. What excuse does one give for not acting on their own convictions while complaining about that lack in others?

    ^-.-^
    Faith is about what you do. It's about aspiring to be better and nobler and kinder than you are. It's about making sacrifices for the good of others. - Dresden

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    • #3
      I understand where you are coming from, it's just my opinion that it's bad business and it makes her seem extremely irresponsible.

      I don't phone the police on him driving drunk because I'm not there to see him. I only hear of it days later from coworkers who saw him there. I don't go that bar, especially not as far away as it is from home and how it usually attracts the sillies.

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      • #4
        I don't even know whether these are separate questions or not, but...

        Why shouldn't people on probation or parole be allowed to drink?
        Is "absolutely no alcohol, period" normally a condition of parole?
        Why would it be made a standard provision?
        If it's not, then why shouldn't bartenders serve them?
        "My in-laws are country people and at night you can hear their distinctive howl."

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        • #5
          I guess it depend upon your AO but here it's a fineable offense to over-serve. My middle-daughter got a $50 ticket. The city judge later set it aside because it was a matter of opinion if the patron was over-served or not. From then on she cut off folks after 4 drinks unless the mgr told her to continue.

          I think the over serve law is used as more of a harrassment than anything else.
          Also here is a bar over serves and allows the patron to leave driving and doesn't call the LEO's they can be held liable. A friends parents own a titty-bar and a stripper came in drunk, drank one beer and took off driving the wrong way on a four-lane. The stripper killed herself, passenger and the kid driving the other car. The bar was found partially responsible for serving but avoided the whole thing because they called the LEOs on her as she was leaving. It didn't put them out of business but it was a good while before they could find another company to insure them.

          I really do try to stay off the roads after dark because of the drunkards.
          Cry Havoc and let slip the marsupials of war!!!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Andara Bledin View Post
            It is not up to the purveyors of liquor to moralize or decide what is good for others beyond what is legally mandated.

            They are in it to make money. It's a business.

            Now, if they're knowingly breaking some law, and you know this and believe it's wrong, then you should report them for it. What excuse does one give for not acting on their own convictions while complaining about that lack in others?

            ^-.-^
            If the owner/bartender lets DV (or anyone else for that matter) drink for free that this is owners business UNTIL knowing that said person is going to walk out the door and drive severly impaired. then it DOES become the owners/bartenders business (as in fines and/or jail time and/or loss of liquior license and/or some degree of criminal or civil liablility )

            at least in Blas' state (mine as well) the rule is you can not serve an already impaired person. as a server of alcohol you are REQUIRED BY LAW to cut off a severly impaired person no matter the business interests. it does not matter if this person keeps your establishment financially afloat. too impaired no more booze

            as to drinking while on probation, it all depends on the condition of your probation. I would assume that if the offence was a alcohol related offence IE. OWI, DWI DUI etc. that a condition of probation may include no booze for you.

            that would include this dumb woman fromthe Madison area
            http://www.channel3000.com/news/4270747/detail.html

            if the offence is anything else I am not sure of why a condition of probation would include no booze. my Google-fu is failing me as I can not find any specific statues related to probation and booze restriction
            I'm lost without a paddle and I'm headed up sh*t creek.

            I got one foot on a banana peel and the other in the Twilight Zone.
            The Fools - Life Sucks Then You Die

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            • #7
              My personal opinion is that if you're on probation for DUI, assault charges stemming from being intoxicated, robbery or vandalism from being intoxicated...you should not be in any tavern until your probation is over.

              What happens is if you get caught in a bar on probation by the police, you get arrested for probation violation (usually takes a couple of times before your probation is revoked, and then you just spend the rest of your probation in jail or some people get sent to treatment). But because it's usually a "3 strikes" rule, people on probation don't tend to take it very seriously and just go to the bar anyway.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Racket_Man View Post
                If the owner/bartender lets DV (or anyone else for that matter) drink for free that this is owners business UNTIL knowing that said person is going to walk out the door and drive severly impaired. then it DOES become the owners/bartenders business (as in fines and/or jail time and/or loss of liquior license and/or some degree of criminal or civil liablility )
                That sounds like a legal mandate to me, and thus not part of any moral obligation.

                ^-.-^
                Faith is about what you do. It's about aspiring to be better and nobler and kinder than you are. It's about making sacrifices for the good of others. - Dresden

                Comment


                • #9
                  In Nevada it's a $10,000 fine to the establishment, with the possibility of that being laid upon the employee, to serve or continue to serve a drunk customer. While there are no actual laws requiring bartenders and cocktail servers to take a TAM (Techniques of Alcohol Management) Class, just about every single house will require it before they let you behind their bar.

                  I can't be certain, but I believe there are also laws that punish the house if it can be proven that they let a drunk drive away from their bar and it resulted in an accident.

                  In the case of DV, if they were to get in an accident and kill someone or even themselves, the family of the deceased could probably file and win a wrongful death suit against the bar.
                  Some People Are Alive Only Because It's Illegal To Kill Them.

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