Well I Wouldn't Do That Because It's Bad Karma...Found Money Discussion Continued

[Greenday]

Inspired by: http://www.customerssuck.com/board/s...ad.php?t=74348

I hate when people ask what would you do and you pick one side and then a bunch of people say, "Well, I wouldn't do what you did, Greenday, that'd be bad karma!" News flash: karma doesn't exist. In 23 years, I've seen too many bad people prosper and too many good people suffer for there to be any reason to even believe it exists in any way, shape, or form. And it's almost like you are trying to guilt trip me into changing my answer. Sorry, I'm not doing anything wrong. No reason for me to feel guilty for it. I'm not picking your pocket. I'm not stealing your identity. I'm not stealing your wallet. Money found on the ground is free game. Especially small amounts. Unless you can prove ownership (feel free to come up with an argument proving it's possible), it's no one's (well, once it goes in my wallet it's now mine).

[Mongo Skruddgemire]

Well first of all, please don't knock the concept of Karma. There are a number of people out there who believe in it as part of their moral code.

I know. Being Wiccan, I'm one of them.

Further to that, it is nice to see that there are people who think of the larger picture or think of ways of being better people in the world. It is refreshing to see.

That all being said, I also see nothing wrong with your thought process. It's a lone twenty dollar bill lying on the floor with no identifying marks on it whatsoever. As often as money gets dropped in this country (hell the world in general), there is no way of knowing who owns it.

Say someone comes in and claims that they lost a $20. Is it really their $20? They may have honestly lost a $20 in that store. But who is to say that that person is the only one who did?

What if the $20 they lost was picked up by someone else? What if it was stuck to another bill handed to a store clerk? What if the person's child snuck into the purse and stole it for themselves? That $20 may not have been the $20 that they lost and are therefore "taking" the $20 that was someone else's.

Unless someone could say that it was a $20 with www.wheresgeorge.com in the upper tight hand corner (something I do with all my bills) or something that clearly shows a knowledge of the bill in question, it being a small amount with no real identifying marks would end up in my wallet as well.

Now if it was a large amount that would likely be missed (say I found a bank satchel that someone could say "Well it was last night's cash deposit and it was the amount of $253.42) or if it were in a wallet with ID of some sort, then that's different matter. I would turn that in.

But for a single bill? In my pocket it goes.

[Boozy]

I'm doubtful of those who claim they would "turn the bill in".

In the actual event of finding a twenty, I suspect a large number of them would stick it in their pocket.

You know what I would do if I lost a twenty in a store while shopping? I wouldn't bother going back to the store to ask if it was turned in. I believe the staff would look at me like I'd lost my fucking mind, and they'd be right to do so.

No, I would mentally wish the lucky bastard who finds it well, and move on with my life.

Then maybe some day I'll find a lost twenty lying around, and I can have that one.

The glorious circle of finders-keepers.

[Mytical]

I don't know about that Boozy, I've turned around when almost home after realizing a cashier gave me two dollars to much in change. I am weird tho.

One problem is I think there is a misconception how Karma works tho. It is not instantaneous. The belief comes with a general understanding that people were born (for the most part, not everybody), and that the Karma goes toward the NEXT life. So that bad person having things good happen to them..was good in a FORMER life, and vice versa. Also, the amount of bad Karma for keep a $20 would be so infinitesimal that it would be laughable.

[Greenday]

Well first of all, please don't knock the concept of Karma. There are a number of people out there who believe in it as part of their moral code.

Then perhaps this thread should be locked because that's the first main point of my rant. I'm ranting about the karma most people seem to believe in for reason that involves doing something bad so something bad will happen to you in this life time.

[Cheshire]

Think of karma as less of a spiritual thing, and more of a "balancing act" in the universe.

Doing bad things pays off immediately, but hurts you in the long run. Being nice doesn't always pay off at first, but it usually always helps later in time.

You could be a rude customer and scream about bad service and have your meal refunded. That would be taking the bad choice, and it would only help you once. After that, should you return, you'd likely be given less service than anyone else.

Or...you could be nice, treat the waiters with respect, and leave a generous tip, and every time you go back you'd be treated extremely well.


You'd be surprised to see how much "karma" is in real life, should you pay enough attention to notice it.

[Greenday]

I don't think I'd consider your given situation karma. I'd call that just being polite. Polite people generally treat other people politely. That's human nature, not karma.

Karma would be someone picking another person's pocket, take off running, then running into a fire hydrant and falling over. Karma would be a terrorist blowing himself up while making a HME. Karma would be Mike Vick getting attacked by a random dog.

[Mongo Skruddgemire]

Then perhaps this thread should be locked because that's the first main point of my rant. I'm ranting about the karma most people seem to believe in for reason that involves doing something bad so something bad will happen to you in this life time.

Really? I was under the impression that your rant was less of Karma and more on how people are acting high and mighty about the fact that they would turn in the money (whether that's true or not is another matter) and that you (as likely most people) would pocket the money.

But if your intended rant is against Karma, then I will respectfully agree to disagree and bow out of the rest of the discussion since when it comes to matters of belief, there is no merit or value to be had from engaging a forum duel over it.

My apologies for wasting your time.

[Boozy]

I don't know about that Boozy, I've turned around when almost home after realizing a cashier gave me two dollars to much in change.

That's completely different. In that case, you know who the cash belongs to, and you are able to return it directly to the owner.

[Greenday]

Really? I was under the impression that your rant was less of Karma and more on how people are acting high and mighty about the fact that they would turn in the money (whether that's true or not is another matter) and that you (as likely most people) would pocket the money.

But if your intended rant is against Karma, then I will respectfully agree to disagree and bow out of the rest of the discussion since when it comes to matters of belief, there is no merit or value to be had from engaging a forum duel over it.

My apologies for wasting your time.

Feel free to also debate people acting like they are better than others because they claim they'd turn the money in.

That's completely different. In that case, you know who the cash belongs to, and you are able to return it directly to the owner.

Exactly. If I just see $20 on the ground and no one is around, it's nobody's. But if I actually see someone drop a $20 bill, that's different.

[MaggieTheCat]

I don't believe in the Christian God, but I also don't go around telling Christians that their god doesn't exist.

I believe in karma. You don't. Fine. Don't shove it in my or anyone else's face that it doesn't exist. You can't prove or disprove that. Just because you don't think it exists or have seen no evidence that it exists, doesn't prove that it doesn't exist. You can not believe in it all you want, but don't act like you're smarter than us because we believe in karma and you don't.

Also, I never saw where anyone who mentioned karma in the thread said that you were going to suffer bad karma. raw456 mentioned that s/he wouldn't want to keep the money because of potential bad karma (for him/herself.) I said I would turn it in for good karma. No where did anyone say that you, or anyone who decided to keep it, would suffer from bad karma.

Lastly, I would and have turned in cash when I find it. Specifically at anime conventions where I vend. People, especially teens, tend to set stuff down on my table and then forget to grab it when they run off. I have found wallets, purses, jewelry, clothing, and cash at my booth that didn't belong to me, and I never kept any of it, I always turn it in to the hotel/con lost and found.

[Greenday]

If you don't want me taking about how I think karma is a load of crap, perhaps people shouldn't be posting about it in nearly every thread on CS. If they can post about it there, I can post my opinions about it here. This is Fratching. It's the whole point of Fratching.

I never said that people in that thread specifically said I'd have bad karma for taking it. Just that I don't like when people tell me stuff. And while people didn't specifically say, "Greenday, you will have bad karma!", they did say that taking the money will give you bad karma or that turning it in gives you good karma (implying that if you do what I suggested you'd have bad karma).

Finally, I never said anything about keeping someone else's possessions. I always turn in other people's possessions. Fortunately for me, a twenty on the ground is not anyone's possession. A sack of money would be someone's possession. An envelope with money would be someone's possession. An unidentifiable bill on the ground is no one's possession.

[MaggieTheCat]

Sorry. You sure acted like you thought someone was personally attacking you in the OP:

I hate when people ask what would you do and you pick one side and then a bunch of people say, "Well, I wouldn't do what you did, Greenday, that'd be bad karma!"

I never meant to imply that I was better than anyone or that people are going to suffer for not turning in the money. I was simply stating what I would do and why I would do it. The way I read raw456's post was that s/he didn't want to risk bad karma so they would turn in the money. I could be wrong, I just don't think they were trying to imply that anyone who said they'd keep the money would suffer.

And when I said I turn stuff, including cash, in when I find it at my booth, I was mostly replying to Boozy's post about how she didn't believe people who said they'd turn the money in actually would.

Also, I don't see how finding a $20 on the ground and finding a $20 in a plain envelope is different. So if you found an envelope with a $20 bill in it, you'd turn it in, but if it's just a $20 you'd keep it? A $20 in an envelope is no harder or easier to identify than a $20 on the ground. If it's a bank envelope and has a bank logo/phone number on it, you could at least contact them, but how many $20s do banks hand out in a day? I doubt it would be any easier for them to identify the owner.

[Greenday]

Money in an envelope and money just laying on the ground are two very different things.

If you say you lost a $20 bill, you still can't prove it yours.

If you say you lost a $20 bill which is in an envelope, it is identifiable as money is not normally in an envelope.

[Mongo Skruddgemire]

Feel free to also debate people acting like they are better than others because they claim they'd turn the money in.

<blink><blink> Ok, I sort of thought I implied that I was in agreement with you over how people can act high and mighty.

Really? I was under the impression that your rant was less of Karma and more on how people are acting high and mighty about the fact that they would turn in the money (whether that's true or not is another matter) and that you (as likely most people) would pocket the money.

I do agree that there are many people who act like this because they can. They can use the fact that you can rarely tell if a person is lying over text and they can get off on the feeling of being morally better than you when in fact the average human (as demonstrated in numerous scientific experiments on human nature) will pick up any unidentified and unidentifiable amount of money and keep it for themselves. They know this deep down but they salve their guilt by acting like they are better than they really are.

Exactly. If I just see $20 on the ground and no one is around, it's nobody's. But if I actually see someone drop a $20 bill, that's different.

if you re-read my first post on the subject I agreed with you there on how I'd handle the money.

• That all being said, I also see nothing wrong with your thought process.
• As often as money gets dropped in this country (hell the world in general), there is no way of knowing who owns it.
• They may have honestly lost a $20 in that store. But who is to say that that person is the only one who did?

Not to mention I also included several situations where someone may be able to identify the money and I would turn it in. You yourself have stated that there are similar circumstances where you would do likewise.

Unless someone could say that it was a $20 with www.wheresgeorge.com in the upper tight hand corner (something I do with all my bills) or something that clearly shows a knowledge of the bill in question, it being a small amount with no real identifying marks would end up in my wallet as well.

Now if it was a large amount that would likely be missed (say I found a bank satchel that someone could say "Well it was last night's cash deposit and it was the amount of $253.42) or if it were in a wallet with ID of some sort, then that's different matter. I would turn that in.

Those are things I pointed out to be reasons why I would turn something in. But also agreed with you that a single lone unidentified bill of any denomination just lying around in a place where no one else noticed it...would very quickly end up in my pocket.

I can name at least three such incidences. I can remember those three since they were bills larger than a $20.

What I opened with was how I disagreed with you on the whole Karma issue. I as well as many others do believe in Karma. I never said that anything bad was going to happen to you as a result of pocketing the money. Honestly I could not since I'd be a pretty big hypocrite.