Hawaii restaurant adds surcharge for non English speakers because they don't tip

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

http://consumerist.com/2011/02/hawai...k-english.html

My response to this, as is usual with tipping stories, is this:

- Tips should be voluntary (if they aren't, they become a fee or charge)

- I do not like the current Canada/U.S. system of waitstaff being paid low wages with the expectation that tips will cover the difference.

- I do not like the expectation of a tip with every single meal eaten out (again that defeats the purpose of the tip)

I sympathize with the wait staff of this restaurant but I don't think this is the best way to solve the problem.

[Rageaholic]

Yeah, I feel the same way about tipping. I tip, but only because they rely on it. I don't think they should rely on it, and I don't know why waitstaff are an exception to the minimum wage rule, but I don't take it out on them.

However, this restaurant's policy screams "DISCRIMINATION!!!".

[Andara Bledin]

It seems to me they could just eliminate the problem (and the inherant racism) by just paying their waitstaff a proper wage and encouraging people to only tip if the service is above and beyond and then raising prices accordingly.

Everybody wins. Well, except the cheapskates, and they can just dine elsewhere.

^-.-^

[Tanasi]

http://consumerist.com/2011/02/hawai...k-english.html

My response to this, as is usual with tipping stories, is this:

- Tips should be voluntary (if they aren't, they become a fee or charge)

- I do not like the current Canada/U.S. system of waitstaff being paid low wages with the expectation that tips will cover the difference.

- I do not like the expectation of a tip with every single meal eaten out (again that defeats the purpose of the tip)

I sympathize with the wait staff of this restaurant but I don't think this is the best way to solve the problem.

The "charge" in this case according to federal labor law isn't a tip but a service fee. The service fee is also subject to sales tax in some states. The service can also affect the employee's overtime rate if overtime hours are worked.
I've participated in several labor audits and most employer's are truely ingnorent of wage and hours laws and unknowingly break those laws. When caught most say they didn't know, I suspect the phrase "Ignorance of the law isn't an excuse" was coined for that reason.

[muses_nightmare]

I do not like the current Canada/U.S. system of waitstaff being paid low wages with the expectation that tips will cover the difference.

I'd like to say that Canada at least pays it's waitstaff $8/h, usually more, depending on the minimum wage. Even in Ontario where (according to the statistics I looked up) they pay liquor servers less than minimum, which in Ontario is $10.25, they still make $8.80. In BC the minimum wage is $8/h, and there is no lower wage for tipped employees, most advertisements I've seen for servers have been $8.50+ often $9, a lot of times more than that. And I'd like to say that in urban areas of BC the living expenses are about the same if not more than in Ontario. So you really can't compare that to what happens in some states in the US, where waitstaff is paid $2/h or something.

[Gravekeeper]

I'd like to say that Canada at least pays it's waitstaff $8/h, usually more, depending on the minimum wage.

Yar, I wasn't relient on tips when I worked in a restaurant. They were nice, but I made minimum before they were factored in.

[FArchivist]

I do not like the current Canada/U.S. system of waitstaff being paid low wages with the expectation that tips will cover the difference.

If you want to actually have the other two, you will have to do something about this.
And frankly, all attempts to change that have failed, usually being marked in the USA as being 'socialist'.

[Boozy]

I'm amused when people say that paying waitstaff regular minimum wage would eliminate the need for tipping.

Most restaurants would have to pay their servers far more than regular minimum wage if tipping were no longer practiced, just to keep them on staff.

Waiting tables sucks. It's a hard job with crappy hours and a lot of nasty customers. It would be pretty difficult to find talented people willing to do it unless they knew they'd make some good money.

I waited tables for five years, and the only reason I did it was because the tips were good. I wouldn't have worked in that industry for minimum wage. There are easier jobs to be had for minimum.

[blas87]

Not to mention, at least in places like the states where less than minimum wage is allowed because of tips, prices for food and drink would be a little higher if they had to pay servers more per hour.

People are cheapwads as it is, I'd hate to see what they'd do if their $10 steak became $15.

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

I'd like to say that Canada at least pays it's waitstaff $8/h, usually more, depending on the minimum wage. Even in Ontario where (according to the statistics I looked up) they pay liquor servers less than minimum, which in Ontario is $10.25, they still make $8.80. In BC the minimum wage is $8/h, and there is no lower wage for tipped employees, most advertisements I've seen for servers have been $8.50+ often $9, a lot of times more than that. And I'd like to say that in urban areas of BC the living expenses are about the same if not more than in Ontario. So you really can't compare that to what happens in some states in the US, where waitstaff is paid $2/h or something.

The embarrassing thing about this is I'm Canadian, I should've known that, BUT I do know the tipping system works the same in both countries. That is to say that a 15% or more tip is pretty much the norm for a dining out experience.

[muses_nightmare]

The embarrassing thing about this is I'm Canadian, I should've known that, BUT I do know the tipping system works the same in both countries. That is to say that a 15% or more tip is pretty much the norm for a dining out experience.

I suppose it is, though I've heard people say 20% for decent service, which I think is way too much for just average service, especially since the wages here aren't like they are in the States. I don't agree with the idea of tipping someone who already makes the same wage as someone working another job, but I do it because it's the socially acceptable thing to do. I just think it would only be fair for employees of other retail type of stores and such to get tips too.

Going to stop before I get into a full on rant.

[Mongo Skruddgemire]

It's times like this that makes me think we need to start pressuring Washington to make the minimum wage mandatory for EVERYONE. None of this bullshit of (watchers of Foamy the Squirrel please read this next bit in Foamy's high-pitched, sarcastic voice he uses in his rants for the full effect) "Well since wait staff get tips they don't need to get paid as much as everyone else."

We had a 20 top and everyone dinner came to around $12 a head. It was on one bill so everyone tossed a $20 and told the poor bastard wrangling the money to let the waitress keep the change (she was that awesome).

So the tab should have been $240 plus the taxes. So we're looking at around a 60-64% tip (without taxes that's 66.666666%). We git the tab and there is an additional 18% surcharge for the large party. We asked, was told that it was to cover the poor to non-existent tips that large parties usually leave. We countered by showing the large wad of bills that we were handing to the waitress, and we were told that "It is what it is and if you don't pay it, the police will be called."

Which really offended us since we had put down on the table $400 to cover the (now) $280-ish bill and even if we just packed up and left had still pair their little extortion surcharge and still left around a 40% tip.

We never used them again. The general consensus was if they were going to accuse us of skipping out on the bill after we had already handed the money to the waitress, then they could kiss our ass.

I tip because I know that the waitresses get the shitty end of the stick by only getting paid less than an illegal migrant worker gets and then relying on the generosity (yeah right!) of others. But in reality (and it seems to be in more enlightened countries), tipping or gratuities should be something reserved for when you are grateful (hence the term "Gratuity") for service that was exceptional.

I am tired of the grief I get when I give the bare minimum tip for lousy service. The waitress could be slower than molasses in a Minnesota winter, the food comes out to us cold, people who come in after us getting their food before we can even place our fucking orders...these are the kinds of people who do not deserve my gratitude if they are going to offer piss poor service at best.

So why should I have to tip them at all? Because if you don't, people think of you as the anti-Christ for not paying their wages.

So I say we need to pressure the Department of Labor and get them to apply minimum wage on every one and leave the tips as a reward for good service and not something that the United States guilt-trips you into doing to support these people.

[Racket_Man]

So the tab should have been $240 plus the taxes. So we're looking at around a 60-64% tip (without taxes that's 66.666666%). We git the tab and there is an additional 18% surcharge for the large party. We asked, was told that it was to cover the poor to non-existent tips that large parties usually leave. We countered by showing the large wad of bills that we were handing to the waitress, and we were told that "It is what it is and if you don't pay it, the police will be called."

Which really offended us since we had put down on the table $400 to cover the (now) $280-ish bill and even if we just packed up and left had still pair their little extortion surcharge and still left around a 40% tip.

what gets me about this situation is that they SHOULD have had on the menu, in very clear and prominent lettering, the fact they did do auto-grat on large tables. since you make no mention of this fact I assume that either:
1. the auto-grat was not mentioned anywhere on the menu
or
2. no one in your party noticed that statement on the menu.

On #1 this is clearly the fault of the restaurant. if there is an auto-grat for large tables/parties is should be stated up front in a manner which is noticeable

and there is a very good reason some places do auto-grats. YES they (meaning the servers and the restaurant) have been burned on tips more than enough times on large parties (reported tips percentages in a lot of restaurants are based on sales $$$$ NOT the actual tips received). the poor server gets stuck with taxes and tip-outs to other employees and winds up with nothing.

We never used them again. The general consensus was if they were going to accuse us of skipping out on the bill after we had already handed the money to the waitress, then they could kiss our ass.

I do not think they were accrusing you of trying to skip out on the bill BUT since the auto-grat was part of your bill, it IS on your bill and failure to pay the entire bill can be cause to get the cops involved.

It appears that a mildly heated confrontation of sorts took place. usually once that happens all bets are off as far as the restaurant is concerned. they may have had one too many situations happen to "bend" the rules and policies

Now I understand that you apparently did not realize the auto grat WAS included. if you had known beforehand, you could have spoken to the MOD to see if the auto-grat could have been waived. this may or may not have happened. if not please accept there are some business that have that as a hard rule.

I tip because I know that the waitresses get the shitty end of the stick by only getting paid less than an illegal migrant worker gets and then relying on the generosity (yeah right!) of others. But in reality (and it seems to be in more enlightened countries), tipping or gratuities should be something reserved for when you are grateful (hence the term "Gratuity") for service that was exceptional.

I am tired of the grief I get when I give the bare minimum tip for lousy service. The waitress could be slower than molasses in a Minnesota winter, the food comes out to us cold, people who come in after us getting their food before we can even place our fucking orders...these are the kinds of people who do not deserve my gratitude if they are going to offer piss poor service at best.

on this I have no qualms nor complaints. if the service was crappy because of a slow or disappearing server, then 2 things should happen
1. little or no tip
2. a quiet (note I said quiet) word with the MOD about the poor level of service with a note of why the sever received little or no tip.

So why should I have to tip them at all? Because if you don't, people think of you as the anti-Christ for not paying their wages.

unfortuneately this is the law of the land: tipped employees get way below minimum wage. they depend on those tips

So I say we need to pressure the Department of Labor and get them to apply minimum wage on every one and leave the tips as a reward for good service and not something that the United States guilt-trips you into doing to support these people.

not gonna ever happen. the hue and cry from the restaurant industry will be devistation of the business, significantly higher costs, etc. AND they have a very powerful lobbying force. just look at the cry when the minimum wage was raised just 3 years ago ----- GLOOM AND DOOM, BUSINESSES WILL CLOSE, THE INDUSTRY WILL BE DEVISTATED, etc.

then there is the cry from the customers as companies will have to substantially raise their prices to compensate for the higher labor costs. wage ceilings will have to be raised.


I will use my own situation as an example. I am a pizza delivery driver. I get well below minimum wage as my base wage. I received tips from ciustomers. the company "compensates" me for the use of my vehicle by paying me about HALF of the IRS recommended reembursment rate.

10 to 15 years ago, delivery drivers were paid minimum wage, received tips from customer and compensated for their vehicles via the IRS recommended per mile reembursment rate

for the last 10 years or so there has been a trend in the pizza delivery instudry to lower driver base wages, under compensate for vehicle use, over staff and demand that drivers perform functions that were at one time considered nontipped production work. at one time there have been several groups of drivers around the country that tried to "correct" this situation through union organizing and lawsuites. they failed miserably. WHY you ask????

becasuse the US govenment and specifically the DOL has turned a blind eye to their own rules contained in the Fair Labor Standards Act. the DOL routinely either takes an inordinate time for processing/investingating claims or just dismisses them out of hand.

use this example: remember back during the summer of 2008 when gas prices stayed above $4 a gallon most of the summer. I was using money out of my base pay and tips to cover my gasoline expense. now acording to the DOL interpetation of the FLSA act this was illegal. DID they do anything about this (even when it was brought to their attention) ????? NO!

we have all heard about certain companies getting lightly slapped on the wrist for labor violations and pay dispariety. WHY???? because business had way more power than WE THE PEOPLE.

[Mongo Skruddgemire]

what gets me about this situation is that they SHOULD have had on the menu, in very clear and prominent lettering, the fact they did do auto-grat on large tables. since you make no mention of this fact I assume that either:
1. the auto-grat was not mentioned anywhere on the menu

This is a correct assumption. I should have mentioned that we used this restaurant monthly. After one of our SCA Business meetings (where we plan events, go over budgets, changes in the rules from Kingdom or corporate and other dry and boring shit) we like to spend some time socializing. We had used that diner for at the least the two years I'd been with that SCA chapter prior to that incident, and a quick facebook message to one of my friends still with that chapter, they were using it for almost a year prior to me joining. So that's a track record of 36 visits without an auto-grat and we obviously never got any complaints about our tipping. God knows that whenever we came in the staff would cheer right up and would damn near get into a cat fight to see who would get to be our server.

Even if things were a little tight, with an average of $12 per meal, we'd toss down a ten and a fiver. So at three dollars per head, and between 15-30 people that's still a nice end of a day for the wait staff.

At no point did they ever nail us with the surcharge in the past and since we were there often enough to be a regular event, the implication that we would stiff the wait staff or skip on the bill was insulting as all fuck.

I do not think they were accrusing you of trying to skip out on the bill BUT since the auto-grat was part of your bill, it IS on your bill and failure to pay the entire bill can be cause to get the cops involved.

But if you would re-read my post, I mentioned that we had showed the manager the money that was handed to the waitress. He could see that in her hand was more than enough money to cover the bill AND a reasonable tip regardless of whether or not he rescinded the auto-grat. For him to see $400 in tens and twenties and then to say that he would call the police if we skipped on the bill that the money to pay for was in the waitresses hand was what was uncalled for in my mind.

It appears that a mildly heated confrontation of sorts took place. usually once that happens all bets are off as far as the restaurant is concerned. they may have had one too many situations happen to "bend" the rules and policies

The words didn't get heated until the manager mentioned the police. Then we all got rather...indignant.

Now I understand that you apparently did not realize the auto grat WAS included. if you had known beforehand, you could have spoken to the MOD to see if the auto-grat could have been waived. this may or may not have happened. if not please accept there are some business that have that as a hard rule.

Small town diner outside the county library that was owned and managed by an older couple. There was no "corporate" that handed down the rules. I do understand that some place have no choice. The larger chains like Applebees, Olive Garden and the like for example.

But for a mom-and-pop diner to treat us like they did and imply that we were going to skip out without paying the bill, after having a rather nice run of a normally good relationship...well it hurt.

2. a quiet (note I said quiet) word with the MOD about the poor level of service with a note of why the sever received little or no tip.

And this is my standard tactic. If the service is poor, I leave the bog standard minimum tip of 10%. There have been times (an incident where a couple came in after we did, ordered and was served before our waitress showed up to take screw up our order comes to mind) when I left two pennies.

In either case I do quietly request a manager and explain to them why I didn't tip or tip all that well.

I am also well known to call a manager over and to explain why I thought my waiter was incredibly awesome.

not gonna ever happen. the hue and cry from the restaurant industry will be devistation of the business, significantly higher costs, etc. AND they have a very powerful lobbying force. just look at the cry when the minimum wage was raised just 3 years ago ----- GLOOM AND DOOM, BUSINESSES WILL CLOSE, THE INDUSTRY WILL BE DEVISTATED, etc.

<sigh> Alas this is very true.

we have all heard about certain companies getting lightly slapped on the wrist for labor violations and pay dispariety. WHY???? because business had way more power than WE THE PEOPLE.

This is not true. They have the power because we let them have the power and I do agree that it is going to be a level bitch to take back.

But the fact that it is going to be a long and hard climb to take the power out of the hands of the money grubbing cock-waffles out there doesn't mean that we should just roll over and submit.

Hell if we could just get a third of the people who click on the "slacktivism" links on facebook to actually get out and do something (letter writing, REAL petitions, etc) then we might just get the attention of some of the people in power.

[Greenday]

Quick question: Do servers actually get the service charge? Or does the restaurant? It wouldn't surprise me if the server gets nothing.