"Tiger Parenting" AKA: Mental Abuse.

[Rageaholic]

So this lady, Amy Chua, has caused quite a controversy defending and advocating her abusive parenting. She thinks that the reason Chinese kids are doing "better" than American kids is because parents in the US don't push their kids hard enough. Here’s her article.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...528698754.html

From an excert from the article, here are a list of things she doesn't let her kids do.

• attend a sleepover

• have a playdate

• be in a school play

• complain about not being in a school play

• watch TV or play computer games

• choose their own extracurricular activities

• get any grade less than an A

• not be the No. 1 student in every subject except gym and drama

• play any instrument other than the piano or violin

• not play the piano or violin.

So in other words, no fun or freedom is allowed, it's all about being the best in everything, and if they don't, there will be harsh punishments for not being absolutely perfect.

She goes on to tell about training her daughter to perform some song on the piano and lo and behold, it gets worse. Despite her daughter trying again and again to perfect the song, she can't do it. She has her husband trying to talk some sense into her, maybe the daughter really can't perform the song, maybe she had tried her best. But no, she’s convinced that the daughter was just being “lazy” and “pathetic”. She forces her to stay up all night, not allowing her to even go to the bathroom until she perfects the song.

And all I have to say to that is HOLY FUCKING SHIT ON A STICK.

First of all, is she trying to paint China in a positive light? Because if anything, she’s showing that we are at least more compassionate and respectful of individual liberty than China. And that’s assuming China is even like that (though it wouldn’t surprise me since it is a communist dictatorship and there is a high suicide rate there).

But more importantly, is it really worth it? Sure, the daughter ended up perfecting the song, but this was after several shouting matches, downright abusive techniques, and probably unhappy children. All so she can play a song? What. The. FUCK?

Personally, it sounds like Mrs. Chua has some problems of her own. She’s very controlling of her daughter, not respecting or listening to how she feels. She acted like she owned her daughter and her philosophy seems to be extreme authoritarianism. She’s just determined to make her daughter the most perfect little girl even if she is probably eaten up inside.

On a more grand scale, I think this is a problem when achievement and conformity is valued over the emotional well being of the individual. I’m not saying that children shouldn’t have expectations as it’s good to teach children valuable skills for the future, but they should be reasonable expectations and shouldn’t take over the child’s life. Come on, kids need their fun time and some freedom to make their own choices, not living just to make mom and dad proud. The way I see it, you work to make money and make money so you can enjoy life. Doesn’t it defeat the entire purpose if you don’t allow kids any fun or freedom?

This lady needs to get a grip.

[Hyena Dandy]

You know, after all this political fuckery we've had with the Tea Party, its nice when something comes up that makes me glad to be American.

Now, look, that is pretty clearly abusive. I mean, I know at least the not even allowed to go to the bathroom would classify legally as child abuse. That article should be enough to get her kids taken away from her.

[Gravekeeper]

Oof, the Dragon Lady mother. I'm not sure how culturally prevalent it is, but everyone I've known so far from China has had one to some degree or another. My ex was Chinese, and despite being an adult her mom controlled or tried to control her entire education ( You will go here. You will learn this. Even if its not what you want to do in life ). She wasn't allowed to have her cell phone turned off in case her mom called. And she wasn't allowed to not answer either ( even when we were in a movie theatre <twitch> ). She was also unsettling racist towards me and taught her daughter the same growing up. Took me months to convince her I wasn't an analomy and all white guys weren't what her mom had taught her ( which is to say cruel deceptive sex crazed rapists ).

It was...stressful. >.>

[AdminAssistant]

While I do think that a lot of modern parents are too 'soft' (i.e. not allowing the exceptional to be celebrated, because it would hurt the feelings of the mediocre), this is the other extreme.

However, she has a point. This is exactly why Asia is completely kicking our ass. My friend from South Korea told me that he would stay at school studying until 10 pm. Extra-curricular activities weren't really allowed. Everything is focused on academic excellence. There's no way that Americans will ever be able to compete with that work ethic. Now that I think about it, the pressure must be especially high in China, where if you don't excel academically, there's a very real chance that you wind up as farm labor or in a sweat shop.

BTW, I think a parent has every right to forbid a child from participating in an extra-curricular activity if their grades aren't up to par. That's why they're called "extra."

[Ladeeda]

But nothing less than straight As is pretty damn harsh.

Also sleep deprivation is a form of brain washing. At the very least, that kid will be in therapy, and is definitely going to have issues if she's ever NOT the best in something. Not to mention all the trouble when she's out of her mother's thumb house and has to make her own decisions.

IF she's ever allowed to make her own decisions. May end up one of those sad 40 year olds who still need mommy's approval on everything, let's Mommy choose who she marries, and is completely strangled by the apron strings of an unpleasable witch of a human.

[blas87]

One of my uncles fell in love with a woman in Korea during the war, took her back to the States here and married her. They have two kids.

My cousin to this day has a bad relationship with her mother because my aunt refuses to get with American culture (it's been over 40 years since they moved here!) and was too controlling and pushy with her growing up.

My mom tried the "Straight As or nothing!" thing with me, but she also threw in the mandatory job, no friends or extra activities unless you have straight As and you don't have to work.....uh oh is that a C? Well looks like you're grounded until that grade gets better. And guess what? Some of those C's never became As. I squeaked past graduated high school because of science and math grades that were just above Fs. Needless to say, I spent nearly all of high school grounded, I snuck out a lot, I made friends with bad people I shouldn't have, just to piss my mom off.

My mom only treated me that way because it's how she was raised. She actually had it much worse than me, she didn't have a dad around who would let her go out with friends for a bit or try and play moderator and try to reason with the kid.

[Rageaholic]

While I do think that a lot of modern parents are too 'soft' (i.e. not allowing the exceptional to be celebrated, because it would hurt the feelings of the mediocre), this is the other extreme.

However, she has a point. This is exactly why Asia is completely kicking our ass. My friend from South Korea told me that he would stay at school studying until 10 pm. Extra-curricular activities weren't really allowed. Everything is focused on academic excellence. There's no way that Americans will ever be able to compete with that work ethic. Now that I think about it, the pressure must be especially high in China, where if you don't excel academically, there's a very real chance that you wind up as farm labor or in a sweat shop.

Personally, I don't care if Asia is doing better than us. They may be doing better but there's also a higher suicide rate among Asians (I don't have the statistics). Again, is all this preasure and high standards really worth it just to get to the top? I'm sure there are some who could handle it, but not everybody can.

But nothing less than straight As is pretty damn harsh.

Yeah, I would have killed myself in elementary school if that had been the standard for me. It's bad enough that some students put preasure on themselves to get straight A's, but it's even worse to think some parents would put that preasure on them.

But as bad as that is, straight A's wouldn't be the best for this woman. Her kids have to be number 1 in everything (except gym and drama because she doesn't have respect for those fields). What a bitch.

[Gravekeeper]

It took years for my ex to get free of her mom's grip and finally do what she wanted too. I don't think it would have been possible had she not come to Canada and gotten to see outside so to speak.

Weird thing is, her dad was the total opposite. Very mellow. But he seemd to be completely overshadowed.

[blas87]

We have a lot of Hmong refugees that have been coming here since the 1980s.

It seems to me that the women in that culture are a lot more mellow than the men. I hate to stereotype but some of those guys are controlling freaks. The girls are a lot more new-age, and it's not uncommon to see them dating white guys.

[Greenday]

I love those kids. Those kids who had the strictest parents in the world are usually the ones in college who go the craziest and are the most fun.

[FArchivist]

So this lady, Amy Chua, has caused quite a controversy defending and advocating her abusive parenting.

First, Bill Maher covered this topic a bit on his show one Friday.

Second, I wouldn't call this abusive at all. Time magazine had a big cover story on "Tiger Moms," and they present a lot of research that backs up Amy Chua's approach. When she was on Colbert, and mentioned she was a lot more limiting in choices for her children, "You have a five year old-- they're going to want to play a video game for 4 hours, would you let them?" I thought about the children of most non-friends I have, and typically after school, it's play time until dinner, they they go up to their rooms to play video games, never studying or school projects and certainly no musical instrument training or practice. Not even team sports of any type.

First of all, is she trying to paint China in a positive light? Because if anything, she’s showing that we are at least more compassionate and respectful of individual liberty than China. And that’s assuming China is even like that (though it wouldn’t surprise me since it is a communist dictatorship and there is a high suicide rate there).

But more importantly, is it really worth it? Sure, the daughter ended up perfecting the song, but this was after several shouting matches, downright abusive techniques, and probably unhappy children. All so she can play a song? What. The. FUCK?

In the Time article I mentioned and linked above, Amy Chua's daughters are very grateful now for what their mother did for them, and plan on being just as strict with their own children, with a few exceptions (maybe a sleepover NOW and then). One of them is playing Mendelssohn piano concertos with orchestras, the other is a tennis goddess and plays the violin exceptionally well, and both excel at school and have the groundwork for extremely successful life, especially in the current environment wherein simply being good enough to have a bachelor's degree isn't anywhere near enough anymore.

Personally, it sounds like Mrs. Chua has some problems of her own. She’s very controlling of her daughter, not respecting or listening to how she feels. She acted like she owned her daughter and her philosophy seems to be extreme authoritarianism. She’s just determined to make her daughter the most perfect little girl even if she is probably eaten up inside.

Clearly, her methods are viable, and they work. The success and accomplishment of her children are evidence of this. These methods are applicable in society. If all children were raised like this, they would be stronger, smarter, happier and more successful.

On a more grand scale, I think this is a problem when achievement and conformity is valued over the emotional well being of the individual. I’m not saying that children shouldn’t have expectations as it’s good to teach children valuable skills for the future, but they should be reasonable expectations and shouldn’t take over the child’s life. Come on, kids need their fun time and some freedom to make their own choices, not living just to make mom and dad proud. The way I see it, you work to make money and make money so you can enjoy life. Doesn’t it defeat the entire purpose if you don’t allow kids any fun or freedom?

I think conformity and achievement need more promoting in the American way of life.

American thought is primarily focused on freedom and liberty, which is good in some ways, but it expresses itself as rebellion against authority and a refusal to cooperate with a mass group. To be frank, this doesn't work in corporate life and corporations are the business of the globe. Small businesses become increasingly less and less relevant as each generation passes and corporations and governmental structures continue to dominate the face of economy and will for centuries to come. In order to be effective in a corporate environment, you MUST conform. Americans are very ill-suited to do this; we all want to be the bosses and none of us want to be worker bees.

Conformity, obedience, discipline - these things need to be emphasized if we Americans wish to continue to be leaders in the socioeconomics of the world.

[Greenday]

Conformity, obedience, discipline - these things need to be emphasized if we Americans wish to continue to be leaders in the socioeconomics of the world.

...We are?

[FArchivist]

...We are?

Yes, the USA has dominated the political, economic, and social context of the world since WW2. We are the sole superpower of the world.

Personally, I have no wish to live under Chinese overlords. So, I'd prefer to remain on top.

[Ginger Tea]

If all children were raised like this, they would be stronger, smarter, happier and more successful.

Say all children were raised like this, each getting straight A's great at the piano and or violin etc, all quallifying for harvard and yale, but only those that can afford it go, the rest the next best thing.

Then you have oodles of college graduates with almost the same skill sets ensuring that the guy cleaning your office toilet out has a phd just like you do with your VP job.

[Greenday]

Yes, the USA has dominated the political, economic, and social context of the world since WW2. We are the sole superpower of the world.

Social? Gonna have to call bullshit on that one. Ask people who have been in prison how socially accepting we are. Ask anyone who is homosexual how socially accepting we are.

We have a whole thread going on about how racist/sexist the country is with Black History Month and Women's History Month.

Our legal system murders people.

The USofA is easily not socially the best country.

Say all children were raised like this, each getting straight A's great at the piano and or violin etc, all quallifying for harvard and yale, but only those that can afford it go, the rest the next best thing.

Then you have oodles of college graduates with almost the same skill sets ensuring that the guy cleaning your office toilet out has a phd just like you do with your VP job.

Exactly. I mean, look at the high school diploma? What is it worth? NOTHING

Look at getting a bachelors. What is it worth? Almost nothing anymore. Everyone is getting one. I mean, I'm not even talking about the more common degrees like education or business. Other majors are having trouble too.