"Tiger Parenting" AKA: Mental Abuse.

[Gravekeeper]

Novel idea: Raise your children with some semblance of balance. Niether driving them like a heartless drill sergeant nor letting them waste their entire day in front of the TV.

As for my ex, she rebelled the moment she got out of mom's reach. Party hard and all that. Took her a couple years to level out. She eventually ditched what mom wanted her to study/get a degree in and is now doing what she wants to do with life ( and good on her for it ).

Use to drive me somewhat crazy though, because she would do shit like stay up all night playing video games. Because she could now that mom was a country away.

Being a control freak over your children is no better than ignoring them and letting them do whatever the fark they want without boundries.

[AdminAssistant]

Yeah, I mean, I think my folks were a little strict with my sister and me, and if I have kids I'll definitely do some things differently, BUT...they knew we were A students. So we were expected to get A's. And that paid off - she was the Valedictorian, I was the Salutatorian, and we both got full-ride scholarships to the nearby university. We were both *allowed* to participate in extra stuff, cheerleading and softball for her, basketball and drama for me, but it was understood that if our grades started slipping, that would be taken away. But we were allowed to have sleepovers, play video games and watch TV (in moderation), have summer jobs. They actually didn't want us working while we were in school, because they wanted us to focus on our grades. I did, but I wasn't playing basketball at that point, and it was only 2 hours a day.

I think my sister went a bit crazy in college, but she also joined a sorority, where going crazy is pretty mandatory. I really...didn't. Well, not much. Sure, I got high occasionally, I drank more than I should, I did a few dumb things. Nothing terribly out of the ordinary. So not every kid with strict parents is going to go gonzo when they hit college. And in my case, that strictness made sure that I could get in a college, get an education, and have a better life than they did.

[Rageaholic]

The time article at least shows that she was willing to admit she was wrong in some instances. But for the most part, I just want to bang my head against the wall reading some of this. For instance, her father being disappointed because she reached second place in some math contest? DUDE, second place is still a good accomplishment. And if everyone lived up to that standard of having to first in everything, there would be a lot of disappointed families. No matter how good everyone is, someone has to be last. Then there's the thing with the card which she still defends. I remember reading a story on CS about a mother who was not nearly as mean about a kid giving her mother a gift but was still met with outrage. This "I deserve the best and you have to give me the best", is abuse, plain and simple. That is not about the kids, it's about her own damn ego. Her kids are mere trophy's to her.

HERE is a good video showing that Chua's method's can easily backfire, even well beyond their success. (Just skip to the 7 minute mark to get to the point). In a nutshell, he knew someone who commited suicide well after getting their degree and 6 figure salary job. He advocates for more creativity and individuality and says that these kind of acheivements are not worth it. Now it may have worked for her kids, but everyone is different. Also, I wonder if her kids are just brainwashed because her techniques she used sound like brainwashing to me. Her problem is that she didn't allow any flexibility and didn't let her kids have any say. At least that's what I get from her arrogant "I'm always right" ego.

For me though, the main problem I have is the philosophy behind it. It's like the ends justify the means. Sure they may be the best at everything, but at the cost of their self esteem and individuality. Now I think we as American's are the other extreme when it comes to self esteem (everybody wins there's no losers), but her method is the other extreme which can be just as damaging. She needs to respect her kids and let them live a life outside of her extreme expectations and demands.

[Eisa]

^Precisely.

My dad was kind of a control freak like that. I MUST get straight A's, or I was a worthless, stupid good-for-nothing. Explicitly laid out like that. Fuck, even if I got an A- in something sometimes, I would be in trouble.

Or I recall when I was 9, I was supposed to clean my room spotless for the chance to open one Christmas present on Christmas Eve. He finally grudgingly allowed me to--but only after stating it wasn't really spotless because I hadn't washed the floor, walls, curtains, and ceiling.

[Skunkle]

In my opinion, middle ground is key here: Not too strict, not too lax. Make sure your kids do well, but make sure they also learn that life is not simply a contest. Kids need to be able to enjoy at least some of their life.

In my opinion, this woman is indeed using her kids as trophies. And she IS abusing them to fuel her own ego. Period. My other points, anyone is welcome to disagree with - I don't insist I'm correct. But on this one...? Kid makes her something as a gift, she throws it away and says it's worthless and she demands and deserves only the best? Anyone who disagrees with me, tell me why this is acceptable behavior for a parent, especially considering that it doesn't teach a child to always do her best---because, chances are, the item she made for her parent as a gift WAS her best.

I was pushed to get good grades, but when I could never get more than a C in any mathematics, even after having a private tutor once a week? It was simply accepted that I can't wrap my brain around complex math, algebra etc. And I still can't - I can't even do long division on paper. And I've been taught to do that about thirty times - that's a simple enough concept that it always sticks temporarily.

The concept here IS popular in China and Japan. School is year-round. After school is out for the day, you go to cram school to prepare for your next higher step in education, high school and then college. Unlike the US, almost everyone gets to go to college. But still, it's pushing things a bit too far in my opinion. People seem to think as though there are only two possible options: Work your kids to the bone, or let them be slackers. People talk as though middle ground is somehow dangerous, and yet I find middle ground and moderation to be very helpful.

[Rageaholic]

In my opinion, middle ground is key here: Not too strict, not too lax. Make sure your kids do well, but make sure they also learn that life is not simply a contest. Kids need to be able to enjoy at least some of their life.

Yeah, middle ground is usually the way to go with things like that.

In my opinion, this woman is indeed using her kids as trophies. And she IS abusing them to fuel her own ego. Period. My other points, anyone is welcome to disagree with - I don't insist I'm correct. But on this one...? Kid makes her something as a gift, she throws it away and says it's worthless and she demands and deserves only the best? Anyone who disagrees with me, tell me why this is acceptable behavior for a parent, especially considering that it doesn't teach a child to always do her best---because, chances are, the item she made for her parent as a gift WAS her best.

Exactly. I don't see how this is loving in any way, shape or form. Even if you argue that she's "playing mean" to motivate them, well she's still being a bitch to her kids. Especially since she has this idea that kids owe their parents everything. I'm sorry, but any relationship where you "owe" something to someone (by default) is not love. Her problem is that she views, acceptance, compassion, and individuality as a weakness. And only sees strength in acheivement, arrogance, and dominating your childs life. And this may sound bigotted, but if Asia is really like that than fuck them and fuck their culture.

I was pushed to get good grades, but when I could never get more than a C in any mathematics, even after having a private tutor once a week? It was simply accepted that I can't wrap my brain around complex math, algebra etc. And I still can't - I can't even do long division on paper. And I've been taught to do that about thirty times - that's a simple enough concept that it always sticks temporarily.

Exactly. There are some things I've accepted that I can't do while I know I'm good at other things. It's about finding those strengths. This lady's problem is that she INSISTS that her daughter can play the piece even though she may not be able to. It's not that it's just not her strength, it's that she's not trying hard enough. She assumes that she knows her own daughter more than her daughter knows herself and that is a very dangerous view to have. Sure, she ended up mastering the piece, but so what? It was most likely through flight or fight. Is it really worth it Tiger Mom, is it?

[Andara Bledin]

Novel idea: Raise your children with some semblance of balance. Niether driving them like a heartless drill sergeant nor letting them waste their entire day in front of the TV.

Pshaw. Silly, Gravekeeper, you think the middle ground has any value?

Actually, I suspect the problem with balance is that it takes work to achieve. But being a lazy "friend of your kids" parent, or an overbearing "tiger parent" are both so far to one side or the other that they take absolutely no thought or effort. Just pick an extreme and anything that doesn't fit into that extreme goes out the window.

Being a control freak over your children is no better than ignoring them and letting them do whatever the fark they want without boundries.

Precisely.

^-.-^

[Cheshire]

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

Those kids are spending so much time learning the creations of others, they won't have any idea how to be creative on their own.

[Amanita]

^That was one of my gripes about high school english. We spent so much time picking apart the work of others, and writing these incredibly dry, rigid-format "academic papers", and almost none on any kind of creative writing. Yawn.

[AdminAssistant]

almost none on any kind of creative writing.

Now, y'all know that I'm a major supporter of the arts, creativity, and the importance of imagination. However, a good percentage of my college students don't know how to write a complete sentence, much less structure an academic paper. Until those basics can be established, how can you teach creative writing?

[Mr. Anubite]

Weird thing is, her dad was the total opposite. Very mellow. But he seemd to be completely overshadowed.

That's been my experience with situations like that. One person is very mellow, but they are too nice/afraid to step up to the dominant one.

[Gravekeeper]

^That was one of my gripes about high school english. We spent so much time picking apart the work of others, and writing these incredibly dry, rigid-format "academic papers", and almost none on any kind of creative writing. Yawn.

We had two seperate classes in high school here. English ( for studying other people's stuff ) and Creative Writing ( for writing our own stuff ). Actually, three if you wanted. English, Creative Writing and Journalism. I took all 3 of course. <cough>.

Jouralism was especially interesting as half the class was spent on standards of journalism and journalistic integrity. Could use that one down there... >.>

[Racket_Man]

I am the youngest of 4 children. the "other" 3 were born 13, 15 and 17 years before me (I was a beginning of menopause baby my Mother turned 43 just after my birth). now I have not completely figured this out(as to the why) BUT I was treated/raised VERY differently from my siblings. there ALWAYS has been a sort of "divide" between us.

My siblings were stongly encouraged (but not overly so) to do well in school, particpate in school sports and activities and allowed outside activities such as Cub/Boy Scouting, outside sports, etc. all were actively and positively encourgaged by my parents in the things they did. they did well in school and the activities they participated in. my brother did graduate from college and my sisters made it most of the way through but got Mrs. degrees (they both finished college later in life). my parents took the middle ground with them and succeeded. it seems they had the right balance going.

I, on the other hand, was dealt a different hand. my first assumption is that I ruined my parents plans for the "empty nest" time of their lives. this must have caused them great frustration and anger and from what I can tell they seemed to be minor fans of pop or de jure child psychology of the day. combine at least these two things and you get me. not encouraged, not supported, a bit of coldness, constantly "compared" with the other 3 and treated mostly like an idiot but ragged on when the grades were not up to snuff. told often enough I was not good enough in several endevors or activities I did.

some of the more mundane or simple things that I wanted to do such as be a student crossing guard or Boy Scouts. the crossing guard thing still puzzles me to this day. the reason given was "We do NOT want POWER to go to your head" HUH????? WTF?????? MY Mother reiterated that answer until amost the day she passed on.

I was not given that much encouragement or support. my parents "forced" life decisions" on me. I was not really given control of my life or given a sense of independance. my parents "determined" that I was not smart enough or good enough to continue onto college. they were setting me up for some tech or maintenance type post-secondary schooling. the one saving grace, if you will, was the fact that my 3 siblings got together and demanded my parents at least let me try college out.

Well the first go round I failed academically. miresably failed BUT I learned valuable life lessons that my parents failed to teach me. yes I went wild for 2 years but I learned to be my own person, how to operate in the real world, a little discipline and a sense of being ME, who I was (at least at the time now I am not so sure anymore).

Yes there were/are things I still lack(ed) like confidence, good self esteem, and a lot of peer-to-peer social skills (try being at a lot of events or gathering and being the only kid/child there since my parents friends were their age and their children were already grown or substantially older)

I did eventually graduate college, get married, have semi-=successful career, got bounced around by the real world, got bounced around in the spiritual world, got used as a punching bag in both, but still I am stable.
a lot of things I learned about life I learned on my own from parents who treated me differently.

[KellyHabersham]

I love those kids. Those kids who had the strictest parents in the world are usually the ones in college who go the craziest and are the most fun.

My Aunt Laura's second husband was one of those people - my understanding is that his parents were very strict with him and his brother, and he was pushed into being involved with/excelling at sports. So when he got into college, he completely rebelled and started experimenting with drugs.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I know, Cracked; but honestly, this article is pertinent in this topic. The first part mentions Amy Chua.

http://www.cracked.com/article_19026...ate-china.html

Chua allegedly threatened to burn her daughter's stuffed animals if she didn't practice. She called her daughter "garbage", which in my experience is fairly tame. Sometimes hitting is involved. This doesn't do any wonders for your mental health but it does teach you that piano or math or whatever is fucking serious business.

Remember the scare stories I mentioned earlier, parents telling urban legends about the kid who got complimented so much he had to drop out of school? Well my mom told me a couple of "true" stories about Chinese-American kids, ones who were pushed hard to succeed by their immigrant parents, and were driven, yelled at, and denied affection until they "succeeded" by graduating from med school, which is of course the best thing a Chinese child can do. In the first story, the son accepted his diploma on graduation day and then handed it over to his mom and told her, "There. That's what you've wanted. I'm done." He found another career and never wanted anything to do with medicine, or his mom, again.

In the second story, shortly after graduating from med school, the son had a nervous breakdown and had to be committed.