Postal worker fired after being slapped & insulted

[PepperElf]

http://www.postalreporternews.net/20...t-and-assault/



As I said over at CS, I have mixed feelings on this.

first of all... slapping, threatening, and racial slurs are never appropriate responses to someone telling you "No I can't do that, sorry"


What I do wonder however is this...

1) Could he have done it? If the letter wasn't really for her, could he have taken it back to return to the sender, or would that be illegal?


2) Why the video? Why not just say "Sorry. But you'll have to talk to the main office" and then just leave?

If she tries to step in front of the car then call 911 and have the police handle it.



Part of the reason I'm asking stuff like this lately is because I'm planning on getting a Concealed Carry License. There's a lot of things to think about before you carry and one of them is ... How to back out of a fight. How to utilize "lesser means" before resorting to stronger measures

Sometimes the answer ISN'T to escalate the fight by putting a cell-cam in someone's face while you continue to argue with them (especially if they're stupid). Sometimes the best answer is to walk AWAY from the fight.


The reason he got fired might not be because he got in an argument with the woman. The reason might be because he had other options to try first.

Instead of taping her, he could have used the phone to call the main office to ask for advice on how to handle the situation. He could have closed the window - and called the office to report that the woman was screaming at him and ask them what to do. or even call the police.


Don't get me wrong. Her usage of racial slurs, slapping him, and suggesting that he'll be killed by whites was unacceptable.


I'm just thinking that ... these days many people think primarily on defending themselves in an argument, which may make them ignore other reasonable options.

[patiokitty]

My understanding is that once the letter has been signed for is that the signer has accepted responsibility over that letter getting to the addressee. The lady could have asked who it was addressed to before signing it but it would appear that she didn't.

"I'm not prejudiced..." and then she starts calling him names. Um, yeah. She is prejudiced.

The thing is once the letter is signed for then there is nothing more the carrier can do, by law. The letter was sent certified so that the sender can tell that the letter was received - this is SOP for certain types of legal letters being sent in the mail. If he had given her back her cards he would have been breaking the law, iirc.

I have a feeling that the reason the lady wanted him to take the letter back is because she realized that by accepting that letter and signing for it she entered into a legal obligation that she then decided she wanted no part of. All she would have had to do was write 'refused' on the letter and tossed it into a mailbox...but she would have still been on the hook because it is still an acknowledgement that she knew what she had in her hands. So, in her mind it seemed that the best way to no longer be at all liable for this certified letter was to demand that the carrier do something he was not able to do and then assault him for it? Yeah, in my mind that just doesn't fly.

He did offer to call his boss but she refused to let him. From what I could see she was not reasonable right from the moment she asked him to take it back because she didn't want it. The racial slurs and assault were the icing on the shit cake. The carrier was as reasonable as he could be under the circumstances, and he couldn't just drive away while she had her arm in the window. It was a lose/lose situation for him no matter what he did - he probably still would have gotten fired if he had somehow managed to get the woman's arm out of his window and driven away. I wonder if he would have gotten fired regardless of the video or not - at least that can prove the dialogue that happened between them and the fact that she slapped him.

[gremcint]

She was a bitch, he handled it all wrong and actually maybe should have been fired.

possible ways to solve this:
1. start the car and leave.
2. roll up the window slowly, and leave.
3. if she prevents you from leaving call the police.
4. if she slaps you call the police.
5. don't ask her permission call your boss.
6. filibuster her until she gives up.
7. if there was a way to legally take it back then do so, see number 5.

His response, stay there and take it and record it then put it on youtube.

If he put it on youtube before getting fired then yes he should definitely be fired because I can't think of a public service job of any kind where that wouldn't get you fired.

Next he sat there and took it, the next guy might have a gun or knife, firing him might be for his own safety.

He had a number of ways to handle the situation and chose a very poor one, the fact that he was recording it just shows he wanted to be a spectacle.

The only way I'd really defend him is if he had been specifically instructed in training to basically take the abuse in one way or another.

He did offer to call his boss but she refused to let him. From what I could see she was not reasonable right from the moment she asked him to take it back because she didn't want it. The racial slurs and assault were the icing on the shit cake. The carrier was as reasonable as he could be under the circumstances, and he couldn't just drive away while she had her arm in the window. It was a lose/lose situation for him no matter what he did - he probably still would have gotten fired if he had somehow managed to get the woman's arm out of his window and driven away. I wonder if he would have gotten fired regardless of the video or not - at least that can prove the dialogue that happened between them and the fact that she slapped him.

there are points where her arm is outside the window

[PepperElf]

Yes. This is what I meant... His own reaction to her and how he handled it may be what got him fired.

[Rageaholic]

If I believed in karma, I would say it was balenced out. She was a real bitch and got her just deserts by making an ass of herself online.

I agree that it wasn't the smartest thing to do and I have to wonder why he would film her, but it's hard to take the lady's side when she's harassing and assaulting him.

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

The only thing the mail carrier did wrong that I could see was sitting there and continuing to argue with Ms. KKK. And of course that's nowhere near a firing offense.

Actually, another thing wrong if the footage was uploaded to YouTube right after this happened. There would be nothing wrong with recording the incident as evidence when her complaint came.

[tabbyblack13]

She should have looked before signing. It's her fault that she is responsible for the letter. If she didn't want the responsibility then she should never have signed it. By law the receipt becomes property of the person who sent the letter so he cannot give it back. So she insults him. If I was him I would not have been so calm. He tried to get away but she did have her arm in the window so he could not leave without injuring her.

I also found out here that he was fired over a year ago but the videos where posted only a month ago. The link has some details. http://www.thetechherald.com/article.php/201045/6413/U-S-postal-worker-verbally-and-physically-abused-by-racist-woman-Update-2

I do not know if this was the true reason why he was fired but if it was then USPS was wrong.

[Mytical]

Reading the above artical, there is an interesting thing here. According to the article he didn't press charges, and was seasonal..so he was apparently not 'fired', but let go because the period of time ran out. Or ...so the article seems to claim.

[KitterCat]

So there’s no problem with people recording phone calls all the time for their jobs, but there’s a problem secretly recording altercations when someone’s threatening you? The letter carrier had secretly videotaped the entire episode on his cell phone and uploaded it to Youtube. She’s out in public, she’s yelling him and hits him. And this is after he’s gotten to his truck. We can only imagine what happened before he decided he’d better record this just incase she calls and complains about him. Even if he hadn’t waited to upload the video I wouldn’t have a problem with uploading some idiots ramblings towards me in a public altercation.

For people saying he should have just driven away, in both videos it looks as if she’s got her hand either on the window or arm through it. The brief instances where she’s moving about are just that, instances, there not long enough to drive away safely.

Please also realize that while Massachusetts is a two party consent for recordings, that pertains to recordings where one has the possibility of privacy. She’s doing her little rant out on the sidewalk in public. Stalking aside, anyone can photograph/voice record/video record you when your out in public.

[protege]

2) Why the video? Why not just say "Sorry. But you'll have to talk to the main office" and then just leave?

I was wondering about that too. Here's one thing I'd like to know--has this sort of thing happened before with this set of characters? It wouldn't surprise me if the two had words before, and he wanted to record her being a dumbass. He could have easily left the scene, but he chose not to.

I bring up that point...because of the nutjobs that live next door to my parents. The nuts, who have security cameras all over their property...and who take great delight in harassing everyone else. Most of the things they do to everyone else...is oddly off-camera when it happens. Yet, if the victims choose to retaliate, anyone want to guess what goes down? The only thing that will get shown, is *you* vandalizing their car/house/garden, and it's *very* difficult to prove that you were provoked.

Granted, the woman in the article is a fucking moron, but still. He could have easily defused the situation, instead of escalating things. BTW, there are supposedly two *additional* videos, which haven't been released yet.

[Aethian]

When I was being trained it was put into our group that you say "I have a certified letter for XXX and from YYY, is XXX available?"

That right there stops a lot of this "Well I didn't know...blah" crap that I have seen from people. I had one lady who insisted she was the addressees wife and she should be able to sign for it. Since the letter in question didn't have a restricted delivery on it for just XXX I let her sign for the letter. She then hunted me down to shove a open letter and open envelope in my hands to say she didn't want this. I told her I couldn't take it back once signed for. It was delivered. Nor after opening it can she then reject the letter after opening it.

As for just rolling up the window and leaving, yea on our trucks that is so not a easy thing to do. And if she positioned herself in a way we can safely move away we're not supposed to move. He should have ignored her then and just called the office to report a problem customer and request a supervisor to drive out to talk with the customer. They are supposed to be available to do this for us.

Edited to add...
Letter carrier wasn't fired over alleged attack

Reading the above artical, there is an interesting thing here. According to the article he didn't press charges, and was seasonal..so he was apparently not 'fired', but let go because the period of time ran out. Or ...so the article seems to claim.

If he was a TE (Temp Employee) then most likely his time did run out. We have had TE's who aren't requested back after their time runs out and we have some we wish they would hire on as permanents.

[DrFaroohk]

"I'm not prejudiced..." and then she starts calling him names. Um, yeah. She is prejudiced.

To rehash one of my favorite arguments - and while I agree this woman is probably racist - the name calling doesn't necessarily make one a racist. Me, for example - if I was very angry with someone and wanted to insult them to make them angry, I'm going for blood. If they're a particular race, I'm gonna make a slam about their race. If they live a certain lifestyle, I'm gonna say something about that. It doesn't necessarily mean I believe what I'm even saying, but it's about what that person believes. If I have to say "fag" or "nigger" to piss someone off, I'll probably do it (although my circumstances would be different than this lady's).

[KnitShoni]

To rehash one of my favorite arguments - and while I agree this woman is probably racist - the name calling doesn't necessarily make one a racist. Me, for example - if I was very angry with someone and wanted to insult them to make them angry, I'm going for blood. If they're a particular race, I'm gonna make a slam about their race. If they live a certain lifestyle, I'm gonna say something about that. It doesn't necessarily mean I believe what I'm even saying, but it's about what that person believes. If I have to say "fag" or "nigger" to piss someone off, I'll probably do it (although my circumstances would be different than this lady's).

You can't do that without resorting to racist/sexist/homophobic comments? Not to mention, depending who you're up against, they might either laugh at you because that was the best you could come up with, or shoot you.

[DrFaroohk]

You can't do that without resorting to racist/sexist/homophobic comments? Not to mention, depending who you're up against, they might either laugh at you because that was the best you could come up with, or shoot you.

It's not a question of can or can't...it's just whatever needs to be said to draw blood. I would have a situation where I'd feel justified doing it, just as this lady felt so too.

[Boozy]

Using racial slurs because you're angry is not really acceptable behaviour. If you frequently find yourself getting so angry that you find yourself calling a black person the n-word, you need anger management therapy.