Was this student justified in raising hell?

[Ginger Tea]

I haven't run into this. The final is part of the class itself, the tests aren't separate.

I remembered reading what seemed low for tuition fees number in the first post and had a quick re read

not until I get to take the exam that I paid $250+ to take.

This to me reads as a seperate ammount, unless it was an evening class then £/$ differences, it might be the average for a course.

I have no idea about cost of education past secondary school (High school) and only vaguely recall the cost's of my 40+ and 10+ evening classes, the 10 being £70ish.

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

I remembered reading what seemed low for tuition fees number in the first post and had a quick re read

This to me reads as a seperate ammount, unless it was an evening class then £/$ differences, it might be the average for a course.

I have no idea about cost of education past secondary school (High school) and only vaguely recall the cost's of my 40+ and 10+ evening classes, the 10 being £70ish.

$250 would probably be about right for one course.

[Gerrinson]

When I was in college, you were made aware at the first class, on the syllabus, and in several mailings/announcements that final exams are on a different schedule than classes. And, a key point, no one who showed up more than 15 minutes late would be admitted to a final exam.

So, yes, if you showed up 1/2 an hour late at my school, you would be refused the opportunity to take your exam and earn yourself an automatic F as your exam grade.

[HYHYBT]

Just like there are crappy students there are crappy profs that shouldn't be teaching. And when half our class FAILED the test it isn't because we screwed around it was because we weren't taught.

"This course was very thorough. What wasn't covered in class or the book was covered on the exam."

It's *possible* for half the class to fail a well-made exam in a well-taught course, but highly unlikely.

Assuming he couldn't possibly have cheated in that time is a terrible assumption.

"Couldn't possibly" is too high a standard. There are simply too many ways to cheat. Are you going to bar people from using the restroom, for example? I mean, they *could* have stashed their book behind a water fountain or something beforehand to look up an answer on the way back! In this case, no, it's not impossible, but it's highly unlikely, and even less likely that he got enough help to make a significant difference.

When I was in college, you were made aware at the first class, on the syllabus, and in several mailings/announcements that final exams are on a different schedule than classes. And, a key point, no one who showed up more than 15 minutes late would be admitted to a final exam.

Key phrases: "you were made aware at the first class" and "on the syllabus." If it hadn't been on the syllabus and you were never told, would it still be reasonable?

[ExRetailDrone]

Key phrases: "you were made aware at the first class" and "on the syllabus." If it hadn't been on the syllabus and you were never told, would it still be reasonable?

But who's to say that the professor didn't have all the information that the student needed in the syllabus and the student just decided not to look over it. And the professor very well might have gone over the exam information in class - numerous times, even - and the student either wasn't in class or wasn't paying attention. There's simply no information in the OP to say one way or the other. And, seeing the shit that my husband goes through with a decent amount of his students, I would not be the least bit surprised if the student just didn't pay attention and didn't look over the syllabus.

My husband mentions key points about his grading system and attendance policy at the start of the semester and sporadically throughout the semester. If a student decides to skip class/not pay attention/not look over the syllabus, the blame falls directly on the student's shoulders.

[Hyena Dandy]

"Couldn't possibly" is too high a standard. There are simply too many ways to cheat. Are you going to bar people from using the restroom, for example? I mean, they *could* have stashed their book behind a water fountain or something beforehand to look up an answer on the way back!

Yeah. Hence why you're not allowed to use the bathroom during an exam

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

"Couldn't possibly" is too high a standard. There are simply too many ways to cheat. Are you going to bar people from using the restroom, for example?

Ummm, yes. Been there, done that.

[Greenday]

Schools have their finals schedule posted in advance. There were times when I had classes whose finals were at completely different times than when class was held. But you knew when it was because it's on the syllabus and it's on the school's website. Sure, maybe his school didn't but the odds of his school being so drastically different from the rest of the US would be slim to none.

In fact, since he mentioned that he decided to work anyway despite it being 30 minutes early indicates he KNEW what time the exam was. He never mentioned anything about getting there ant not realizing the test had started already. "Now, on the day of the final, the exam started a half hour or so before the normal class time. I figured that was fine;" He knew what time it was. No doubt about it.

[guywithashovel]

double edged sword, both sides are right. I definitely want my pharm techs to not be likely to kill me.

However, I also had a prof that we wanted what we paid for instead of him going to wikipedia to teach the class on a regular basis. having no general understanding of where he wanted to take the course. Just like there are crappy students there are crappy profs that shouldn't be teaching. And when half our class FAILED the test it isn't because we screwed around it was because we weren't taught.

If a teacher or professor is not doing his job, then that's a different scenario. What I was talking about are students who live under the assumption that because they pay tuition, they should be able to come and go as they please and be expected to do little to no work for their degree. I don't teach at the school I work for, but I do hear this sentiment from some of the students when they're in the library or when I walk into the student center lounge to get something from the vending machines or warm my lunch up. They'll be miffed because they have to take a hard exam or do a time consuming project, and it's obvious that they think that because they're paying tuition, they shouldn't be asked to do such things.

[Evandril]

The big part that I'm curious about...Was the rule about 'If you're x min late, you cannot test' announced? It *seems* like the student didn't know about it, but that doesn't mean it wasn't announced/published/ect. If being late for other tests had been acceptable, then, IMO, the student still made a bad assumption, but not an unreasonable one. If it wasn't announced, and the situation hadn't come up before, the assumption made is worse, but still a bit understandable. Should the student have made sure showing up a half-hour late was acceptable? Of course, and he was at fault there...but if the policy about NOT being late for a test being grounds for automatic failure wasn't given, the professor is at fault as well.

[Shangri-laschild]

Also, he tried getting the manager on the phone to prove that he was at work, but he wouldn't hear any of it and jumped to calling security. I don't know, but to me that sounds like he was being a douchebag.

The teachers at the school I work for are supposed to call us (Police) if they ask a student to leave and the student doesn’t leave. The teacher has no way of knowing how this is going to escalate and if the student is going to get loud and belligerent. No, in this case the student didn’t, but the teacher had no way of knowing that.

3) The professor only offered one reason why the student was not allowed in, which was that the student could have gotten the answered, even though said student offered proof he did not. Professor seemed like he was enforcing rules for the sake of rules, not for any good reason. THAT, my friends, is the most unacceptable thing I've seen thus far.
4) People need to get over themselves. "AWwwww man I lost my TEST ZONE MENTALITY BECAUSE SOMEONE OPENED A DOOR AND I HEARD FOOTSTEPS!!!! OH NO!" If you're that fucking unprepared for a test, you deserve to fail. The fact is that this kid being late did not actually affect anything, and the disturbance was caused by the professor himself. If, and only if, there was even a rule about lateness in the first place, it was violated in letter only, and not spirit, which to me is far more important, as I'm sure it is to all rationale, intelligent, logical, non-stupid people.

If this is his standard reason for why he doesn’t allow people in 30 minutes after the start of the test then it still applies. Whether the student had proof or not, he still didn’t get there in time. Not to mention, I’ve had bosses that would have lied for me before about something like that if I asked so as far as this being proof, it isn’t exactly. Plus how does the teacher know that it is in fact his manager and not just a buddy?
You say that people need to get over themselves as far as interrupting the test zone but how is wanting a quiet, disruption free testing atmosphere (something you’d expect for the most part) more unreasonable than expecting the teacher to change his rules just for you? That honestly seems more out of line to me. The idea that he expected the teacher to make an exception for him honestly came off as someone of an entitled attitude.

I just don't think this was necessary. Sure, he should have alerted the teacher ahead of time (fail on his part there), but I see no reason why the teacher couldn't have let him take the test. I don't even think the rules were unfair, but neither would letting him take the test in the first place which would have worked out better for both of them. To me it sounds like the professor has a bug up his ass about students being late and wanted to punish him.

The problem comes in when you bend this kind of rule for some and not for others. I don’t know about this college but the one I work at is filled with the kind of students who will throw holy hell if you give one student a break on a rule but not them. Even if the other student had a valid reason and they didn’t. And I get that you can say no to the second student but honestly there are plenty of times when I’ve been in the position to either let it slide this one time or hold up the rules for everyone and it’s usually not worth my time to pick and choose who to let slide. If there is a rule in place, then too bad.

Unless the class had a stated policy that you could not take a test if you were late, there is zero excuse for not allowing the test to be taken so long as there is time left in the period.
I agree, once it was clear he would not be allowed to take the test no matter what, he should have handled it from there in a way less disruptive to his classmates. But then, it's hardly a situation he's likely to have thought out how to handle in advance

There seems to be a lot of assumption here that the rule wasn’t stated ahead of time. I can’t count the number of times people don’t read their syllabus or ask questions they should have known the answer to if they had listened. I have students call in all the time asking me to clear up things or wanting to complain that they didn’t know to do something in time when it was clearly stated in the packet they were given.
All the classes I’ve been in have had that kind of attitude as far as not coming in for the final late.
Honestly I find the mentality of planning to come into a final 30 minutes late confusing. I think that’s what I don’t get the most. If a final starts at a certain time, then that’s when it starts.
I get he probably hadn’t thought it out first but generally, when someone isn’t willing to budge and has told you no, sticking around and arguing more seems like it’s only going to cause more trouble. You don’t have to have thought out that specific situation to understand that concept.

[gremcint]

A lot of us are talking about how schools are now but remember this happened 12 years ago, where they may not have been an online exam schedule I can look up on a cell phone.

[Greenday]

A lot of us are talking about how schools are now but remember this happened 12 years ago, where they may not have been an online exam schedule I can look up on a cell phone.

But they still had syllabuses.

[Andara Bledin]

I haven't seriously been to college for over 20 years, and yet, I knew exactly when all of my finals would be on the first day of class. It's not something that gets set partway through the year; it's a part of the class schedule that's known from the first day and more often than not, is included in the paperwork you get on that first day.

^-.-^

[ExRetailDrone]

A lot of us are talking about how schools are now but remember this happened 12 years ago, where they may not have been an online exam schedule I can look up on a cell phone.

I was in college for the first time almost 12 years ago, and I knew exactly when and where my finals would be. There may not have been the level of connectivity then, but I was still able to easily look up any of that information on my university's website from any of the multitude of computer labs strewn around campus. I also read my syllabus the day I received it, and periodically checked it over when I needed to know when something was due or what day/time a test was going to be given. It's called taking responsibility for the education you're paying for.