History Repeats itself if you don't learn

[FArchivist]

(a nuclear warhead requires a propulsion system, and a launching silo, plus detonator).

Pedantic soapbox moment: Yes...for a warhead. But if I were going to own a nuclear arsenal, I would either have bombs similar to what was used in WW2 or modern suitcase nukes. Preferably the latter with a VERY dirty yield.

There is precedent. In the U.S., up to the time of the Civil War, some regiments were raised and outfitted, not from the government budget, but by wealthy individuals (who would then command the regiment in combat).

And there are reasons we went from that to a professional army instead. And mechanized warfare.

If Bill Gates wants an Iowa-class yacht, why the heck shouldn't he be allowed to hire a shipyard to build one?

The only thing that guarantees American rule of law is a monopoly on force. In fact, a monopoly on force is a requirement for ANY stable government. Do we really want private individuals to field forces? Would you really be OK with Microsoft responding to a lawsuit with, say, a nuclear strike? Or an artillery barrage?

[FArchivist]

This is a straw man, not a defense.

Just stated in order to fend off accusations that LOL, that could never happen. In fact, the position on being able to own a nuclear arsenal if one wants to is part of the standard Libertarian position.

I also want to point out that the reason the Japanese did not want to invade America is because of our 2nd Amendment,

And it should be pointed out that this is evidence of Japanese military incompetence. The idea that a militia would be able to militarily defeat a mechanized war machine in the USA from the 1930s onward is plainly ridiculous. Perhaps not as much as when it is argued today, but still ridiculous.

[Gravekeeper]

But if I were going to own a nuclear arsenal, I would either have bombs similar to what was used in WW2-

Not exactly compact and still annoying to deliver without killing yourself in the process. I'd rather have the silo me thinks. I can live in the silo. Have you seen the space in those things? You could renovate one nicely. ;p

-or modern suitcase nukes. Preferably the latter with a VERY dirty yield.

Dirty yield is the whole point of a "suitcase" nuke as you're not going to get the destructive power of a larger warhead. That said, dirty nukes are pretty douchtastic seeing as the goal is enviromental damage and contamination. Silo all the way~

The only thing that guarantees American rule of law is a monopoly on force. In fact, a monopoly on force is a requirement for ANY stable government.

Quite true, to be honest.

[insertNameHere]

............

And it should be pointed out that this is evidence of Japanese military incompetence. The idea that a militia would be able to militarily defeat a mechanized war machine in the USA from the 1930s onward is plainly ridiculous. Perhaps not as much as when it is argued today, but still ridiculous.

Guerrilla warfare anyone? Sure, there is not a guaranteed victory against a militia vs organized military. But when you figure, they would be facing, a militia AND an organized military, it is a lot harder to pacify people willing to fight to the death and having the weapons to do so who are only holding out till the professionals arrive. then you figure when you fight natives they have a better knowledge of the terrain, plenty of opportunity to setup ambushes. Also, picking up enemies weapons to make yourself stronger.

[lordlundar]

Guerrilla warfare anyone? Sure, there is not a guaranteed victory against a militia vs organized military. But when you figure, they would be facing, a militia AND an organized military, it is a lot harder to pacify people willing to fight to the death and having the weapons to do so who are only holding out till the professionals arrive. then you figure when you fight natives they have a better knowledge of the terrain, plenty of opportunity to setup ambushes. Also, picking up enemies weapons to make yourself stronger.

Case in point: Vietnam. The US military had to deal with much the same scenario of having to battle an organized military and a militia at the same time. The result was a resounding retreat and excuses made so that they could save face. Now consider that Japan would have had to face that same scenario with a lot more territory to secure to get a solid beach head and a lot heavier defended coastline with better equipment than anything Vietnam had. If (and that's a pretty strong if) they managed to get to shore and secure a foothold in a small section of the US, they would have had to expand and secure territory extremely fast or be pushed out before they can do so. That rapid expansion was in it's infancy and not a tactic familiar to Japan.

Refusing to invade the US shore wasn't incompetence, it was proper tactical thinking.

[Greenday]

Look at Afghanistan. They sure as hell aren't using conventional tactics. They use guerilla warfare. And it can be effective too. Probably is, they still are getting their asses handed to them.

[protege]

Refusing to invade the US shore wasn't incompetence, it was proper tactical thinking.

Also, the logistics of such an operation weren't there at the time. Remember, Japan wasn't the manufacturing power that it is now, and they didn't have the infrastructure that we did. For example, Ford's Willow Run plant managed to crank out roughly 650 B-24 bombers at production's peak in 1944! Sure, Japan had their own factories, but nothing like that scale! Let's not forget that the US railways were running at full-tilt during the war, which made it possible to deliver parts and equipment more easily.

Still, if we had chosen to invade Japan, I don't think it would have gone well. Many Japanese were willing to die for their country--the kamikaze pilots for example--which would have made things very bloody, and possibly dragging out the war (which we were fighting on 2 fronts, sound familiar?) longer. Instead, we chose to drop nukes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki--which, IMHO, saved more lives than were taken.

Speaking of that, I think people did learn one thing from history. That is, nobody has had the balls to use nuclear weapons again. It's been threatened, but so far, nobody's actually carried it out.

[mikoyan29]

Look at Afghanistan. They sure as hell aren't using conventional tactics. They use guerilla warfare. And it can be effective too. Probably is, they still are getting their asses handed to them.

The Viet Cong got their asses handed to them too....

[Greenday]

The Viet Cong got their asses handed to them too....

Not sure where you are going with this. Can you further explain how Vietnam and Afghanistan are similar?

[mikoyan29]

Not sure where you are going with this. Can you further explain how Vietnam and Afghanistan are similar?

Everytime the US Military fought with the Viet Cong or North Vietnamese Army, it was a case of the US Military handing the Viet Cong or the North Vietnamese Army their asses. Since the Tet Offensive of 1968 is kind of viewed as the crossroads for the Vietnam War. Tactically it was a defeat for the Viet Cong but Strategically it was a victory because up until that point the US public was being told that we were winning and to see an offensive of that magnitude kind of put doubt into that. shortly after that was when we started to pull out of Vietnam.

In Afghanistan, we kicked the Taliban out of power shortly after the war started yet they are still in charge of huge swaths of the country. so we'll see....

[Shards]

and happened again today

You can list as many touching stories as you want to, it doesn't change the fact that while a combination of faith in your fellow man and faith in your fellow man's enlightened self-interest may let you successfully predict what will happen 99.99999% of the time in a bad situation, the pessimism and lack of faith in our fellow citizen's willingness to put themselves at immediate risk even in order to protect themselves only has to be right once, for one airline, for your faith to prove catastrophic, while even in a perfect world, ours merely becomes an inconvenience. When you cut through all the posturing and semantics, are you truly willing to bet all the lives as well as economic and political implications on you being right 100% of the time and us not being right once?

[Greenday]

In Afghanistan, we kicked the Taliban out of power shortly after the war started yet they are still in charge of huge swaths of the country. so we'll see....

...What country are they in charge of huge swaths of? Because it's not Afghanistan.

[FArchivist]

...What country are they in charge of huge swaths of? Because it's not Afghanistan.

Just as in the Soviet occupancy, the Afghan government WE support holds the cities. The rural areas? Still hold allegiance to the Taliban, even if it is done in secret. That's per current US intelligence.

[Fire_on_High]

As for the danger of nail clippers, most come with a nail file on them which is big enough to stab someone in the throat and kill them. Pull that off and everyone will be too scared to do anything essentially giving you control of the plane.

Speak for yourself. Not everyone's a pansy ass who's too afraid of a few stitches to do the right thing. I'm fat and out of shape with a bum hip and I wouldn't be afraid to MAYBE get cut up a bit to avoid DEFINITELY being downed in a plane. Cuts heal.

[insertNameHere]

Speak for yourself. Not everyone's a pansy ass who's too afraid of a few stitches to do the right thing. I'm fat and out of shape with a bum hip and I wouldn't be afraid to MAYBE get cut up a bit to avoid DEFINITELY being downed in a plane. Cuts heal.

Keep in mind, most people are sheep. http://www.mwkworks.com/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html

They will not stand up for themselves and are just waiting to be victimized, Working in a convinence store the possibility of being robbed is always there, we are trained to co-operate.... but if you can't open the safe you can't open the safe and that gonna get you killed if you don't know WHEN to fight. Wave a gun in my face you get whats in my drawer, want more than that I'm gonna react because I have thought about what is needed to defend myself and how I would prefer coffee to the knife in my pocket. nothing like several pots of coffee busted on your face to say fuck off...... my coworkers will have never considered the situation and will either be frozen in terror or muttering "please don't kill me please don't kill me"