if you support worker's rights....

[BlaqueKatt]

then there's this:

Apple's supplier code of conduct demands that employees are treated with respect and dignity, but its own audit reports suggest suppliers in China may not meet up to these standards.



hey lets set standards, use that as a marketing tool "we demand this from not only ourselves but our suppliers", and when our own audit shows they aren't holding up their end of the code, we'll just look the other way for the sake of profits.

"Apple is committed to ensuring that working conditions in our supply chain are safe, workers are treated with respect and dignity, and manufacturing processes are environmentally responsible," Apple stresses that: "It does not tolerate any violations of its supplier code of conduct."

the above is from Macworld june 2006, Apple's audit(in 2006, so five years ago) substantiated the claims that foxconn violated their supplier code of conduct and did nothing.

[Mr. Anubite]

While this is always shocking to confront, it is a constant fact of modern life.

Slavery never went away. It just moved to China. Unfortunately, a boycott just isn't practical. Petitioning the governments of China and the nations that do business with them (i.e. every nation on the Earth) would hopefully produce better results.

[Bloodsoul]

I've been hating on Apple since before hating on Apple became trendy. ...Wait, did I really just type that?

I think the only Apple computer that I ever really enjoyed was the Apple //e back in grade school. I despised the Macintosh since its disks weren't compatible with Windows 3.1/'95 (before I knew what compatibility even was, so stupid me), and I don't even recall the early iMacs even having floppy disk drives.

Alright, so I grew up in a Windows/PC household and am no doubt biased, although I am using a Linux-based GoDaddy server because, last I checked, their Windows-based servers don't support PHP. Curse you, case-sensetive file names!

[Ginger Tea]

I despised the Macintosh since its disks weren't compatible with Windows 3.1/'95 (before I knew what compatibility even was, so stupid me).

Well the ST and Amiga although sharing the same disk type were not compatable either, well the Amiga could read ST disk's when using software, but not the other way round, ST was IBM formatted so it could read 720k Dos disk's.
Nor would a cassette for a Spectrum read on a C64 or CPC 464, same cassette type different format.

Most devices like cameras and sound recorders that use SD/Other memory cards, format to fat32 as every modern computer can read it, the first generation of iPod's were Apple format so windows users could not use one, till they realised that the market could be bigger if they targeted windows for iTunes instead of just mac's.
AFAIK Linux users still do not have an official iTunes release and work via hacks to get it to work, although from what I heard, they turned it into any other plug and play/drag and drop mp3 player, better IMO, I begrudgingly use iTunes only when syncing or checking for new pod casts, windows media is my default ripper player and burner.

If they did apple for apple, iPad/Pod/Phone sales would be minimal, more elitist and more bloody expencive.
Mind you mac's have always been that way, the mac mini costs 3-4 times what a generic windowx/linux setup would cost, yet some people are 'forced' to buy an entry mac as they are working on apps for the iDevices and cannot 'build' on windows or linux.

Back on topic

But with Foxconn involved in many ways with damn near everyone, a genuine boycot would involve never having an electronic device again, hating the Wii for the same reasons is not trendy, nor that generic Digi cam you got for £50.

OH NOES, my open source Linux powered carbon nutural fair trade ethicaly souced* PC has a PCB that might have been made there elebenty

*OK an ethically sourced product would probably not come from foxconn, but it ran better with it

[Andara Bledin]

But with Foxconn involved in many ways with damn near everyone, a genuine boycot would involve never having an electronic device again, hating the Wii for the same reasons is not trendy, nor that generic Digi cam you got for £50.

The boyfriend commented that to actually boycott Foxconn, you'd essentially have to become a Luddite.

^-.-^

[Ginger Tea]

Well I'm boycotting Nike Rebok and all the other £100 trainer brands made in sweat shops, mainly cos I like wearing boots, erm hang on thats not quite a boycot, thats like me boycotting Kellogs as I no longer eat breakfast cereal.

I choose not to buy these things, beacuse I don't want them, not because someone in the production chain is a bit dodgy, I don't see the justification for the cost of an apple pc vs a windows/linux pc so I don't buy one, I do not want or covet them so it's moot.

Some days I feel calouse enough to say "Unless a panda died to bring me cheap goods there is not enough suffering involved with my purchase."

If foxconn failed apples morality compass system or whatever it was refered to as up there and apple still do business with them, then that piece of paper isn't worth jack. So apple should just ditch it as they probably wont go to a more ethical supplier if it means a cut in their profits.

The new iMac
Many Panda's died to bring it to you

Not too sure how that would go down with PvP's Brent Sienna (sp) I'm sure part of him would be happy

hmm panda's high on tiger bone aphrodisiacs, OK I've rambled too far into la la land, can someone shine a light.

[FArchivist]

The company Apple contracts to make it's products, forces workers to work 70+ hour weeks, on their feet, for a whopping $8.50 PER DAY(so around 70 cents per hour) stuffs them living 24 to a room, lets them see their families once a year, oh and they made $6 BILLION in profits last year!

But hey Americans need their overpriced consumer goods, so exploit people in other countries, what do we care, we NEED our ipods, ipads, and iphones!

Hey, we allowed it to happen. This is CAPITALISM. This is how UNREGULATED CAPITALISM operates. There are good sides to capitalism; there are also bad ones. Since regulations of any sort are now "socialism", y'know, this sort of thing is going to happen.

Seeing as you tend to support conservatism, you should be OK with this because it's standard fare for the conservative corporate handbook on How To Outsource. Been going on since Reagan too.

The boyfriend commented that to actually boycott Foxconn, you'd essentially have to become a Luddite.

He's right, at that. There isn't hardly a computer product or electronic device that doesn't contain something from Foxconn.

[Andara Bledin]

So apple should just ditch it as they probably wont go to a more ethical supplier if it means a cut in their profits.

There is nobody that operates on the scale Foxconn does. There's probably nobody else in the world they could go to that could handle their needs.

There are good sides to capitalism; there are also bad ones. Since regulations of any sort are now "socialism", y'know, this sort of thing is going to happen.

And the more we ignore the rapaciousness of the top 2%, it's going to happen more and more on our own shores, as well.

^-.-^

[Boozy]

Hey, we allowed it to happen. This is CAPITALISM. This is how UNREGULATED CAPITALISM operates. There are good sides to capitalism; there are also bad ones.

There are good sides and bad sides for the Chinese, too.

Those factory jobs are coveted in many areas of China. Subsistence farming sounds lovely to many Westerners (who perhaps picture a commune of happy families picking vegetables), but the reality of the situation is much harsher. Disease and famine are a fact of life.

That's why the rural Chinese are flooding into the cities in search of something better. An $8-a-day factory job is not the answer to their prayers, not by a long shot, but it's something to put food on the table.

The reality of the situation is that the average Chinese worker is better off with Apple in the country than without.

That's not to say that nothing can be done. Governments of developing nations need to stop selling their workers short and start insisting on decent wages. Unfortunately, with the international competition for these contracts, it won't happen on its own.

An international minimum wage (adjusted for cost of living per country) is an obvious solution. And will obviously never happen.