Stupid "black" names...why?

[KnitShoni]

With extremely regrettable results, unfortunately.

Regrettable because...people don't like them? Don't understand them? Let their prejudices color their view of them?

Thing is, they want to honor members of their family. And, no matter what they chose, there would be people saying, "What the hell kind of name is _____?!"

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Regrettable because it's pretty much the name of a toilet.

I realize that's not the only name we're talking about, but it sums up my problem with it perfectly. Which is that people are doing this carelessly. At least try to put the stuff together in a graceful way. Like I said, dude on TV named "Malice." I don't care if you're naming him after his nobel prize winning daddy who died a decorated war hero. Don't freaking name your kid Malice, because if you do, you waive your right to be surprised when his face ends up on the post office wall.

[KnitShoni]

No. You CHOOSE to associate it with a toilet. That's on you.

Haven't we had many discussions here about multiple meanings for words? Take the name "Candida" that Ree mentioned. When I first saw it, I didn't immediately think "yeast infection." You know what came to mind, for me? This: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candide. It, to my mind, was the feminine form if Candide.

[Ree]

Take the name "Candida" that Ree mentioned. When I first saw it, I didn't immediately think "yeast infection." You know what came to mind, for me? This: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candide.

Perhaps if it was actually spelled that way, but it isn't.

[KnitShoni]

I realize that's not the only name we're talking about, but it sums up my problem with it perfectly. Which is that people are doing this carelessly. At least try to put the stuff together in a graceful way. Like I said, dude on TV named "Malice." I don't care if you're naming him after his nobel prize winning daddy who died a decorated war hero. Don't freaking name your kid Malice, because if you do, you waive your right to be surprised when his face ends up on the post office wall.

Ok, but where do you or any of the rest of us get off telling someone else what to name their child? And how do we go from realizing it's not OK to judge someone based on skin color or sexuality, to justifying judging someone based on the name their parents gave them?

[kiwi]

One of my friends named their daughter essynce. She is a darling little girl but her name sounds like sperm.

[KnitShoni]

Perhaps if it was actually spelled that way, but it isn't.

See my edit.

[Boozy]

And how do we go from realizing it's not OK to judge someone based on skin color or sexuality, to justifying judging someone based on the name their parents gave them?

In fairness to others, I think most of the criticism here has been towards the parents who chose the name, and not the child.

However, I'm pretty much on your side. When the argument against some of these names boils down to "it's hard to get a job interview", should the focus of our wrath not be on small-minded bigots instead of the parents?

[RecoveringKinkoid]

I'm not telling anyone what to name or not name their kid. And I'm not justifying or judging anything. I'm telling you that's the reality we live in every day.

I see some kid named something embarrassing, I don't think less of the kid, but I will probably roll my eyes at his parent's sloppy naming practices.

It's not my opinion that someone with an obviously made up name that unfortunately means "toilet" or "ill intent" or "yeast infection" is going to have baggage someone with a better thought out name is not going to have. It's a fact. Is it fair? Probably not, but that's the way it is.

And the reason I associate the word "latrine" with "toilet" is because that's what it means in English. I choose to make that association because I speak English. It's not a choice, really, you say toilet at me and I'm going to picture a toilet because that's how language works. Same reason I associate "Malice" with "Ill Intent" and "Candida" with "lady parts itch" because in English, that's what they mean. I mean, come on.

I come from a long line of people who had to change their own names so that they wouldn't have to be suffer prejudice and stigma. Does it suck they had to do that? Absolutely. Yes. They had to give up their language, too. That sucks even more. It sucks and it's not fair and it's a shame. But that's how the world works.

[KnitShoni]

I really hate the phrase "that's how the world works." That phrase is used and has been used to justify so much crap, it isn't even funny.

When someone says, "Don't name your kid _______, because I'll think ______." that, to me, is telling someone how to name their child.

And yeah, you might come from a long line of people who had to change or give up their names altogether so as not to suffer prejudice. The people you're judging? Came from the same place. Well, not exactly. Your people chose to change their names. The people whose names you all are making fun of? Their ancestors didn't have that choice.

[the_std]

I have to agree with KnitShoni. Since when does a name have to dictate who and what we are as people? Obviously, a name dictates certain things about everything else - a chair is going to be something you sit on, a dog is a domesticated canine, a strawberry is a tasty fruit. But why does a Malice have to be a bad person? Why does a Latrina have to be low-class? Why do these names have to impart specific futures on the people who hold them? Isn't the beauty of humanity our complexity - how many different pieces make us up as a whole? I'm sorry to get all metaphysical, but seriously, how arcane is it that what we are called dictates who and what we are.

I know that the world is going to be prejudiced. But why can't we make the effort to give these people a chance, the benefit of the doubt - maybe Latrina's parents simply liked the sound of the name and didn't have the education to realise what it resembled. Does that mean she will turn out to be a low class simpleton? There are so many ifs in situations as these that saying "well, the world will think it's a dumb name, so you shouldn't use it" is just as insulting as making fun of the person for having that name.

[Ree]

Since when does a name have to dictate who and what we are as people?

The fact is, a name does influence who we are. That is why parents usually do put some thought into naming their child.

There have been numerous studies in this area.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7312412.stm
http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/201...etter-or-worse
http://www.qualityarticle.net/unique...ts-recipients/
http://www.behindthename.com/articles/2.php

It would be wonderful to have a Utopia where we can all live free of these kinds of stereotypes and perceptions, but human nature being what it is, they do exist and will probably continue to exist.

A person's name is a part of what shapes their identity.

That being said, I do find the title of this thread offensive.
"Stupid black people names"? Talk about judgmental.

I would not go so far as to judge them "stupid", but I do wonder about some of the more unusual names that I have encountered.

[AdminAssistant]

I think that you really have to balance between unique/special/whatever and pronounceable/doesn't mean something absurd. Personally, I would go for a more "normal" (whatever that means) first name and then the really special meaningful name as a middle name.

See, I teach college. And the first few classes are super awkward, because I'm learning their names and such. The first time I take roll, if there's a crazy name that I don't know how to pronounce, it embarrasses both me and the student. Now, there are cases where this can't be helped, primarily international students. I will try to pronounce their given name however they want me to say it, but secretly? I'm relieved if they tell me that I can call them Mark or Suzy or Chad. Last names are such a minefield that I avoid them completely, except this year, when I had 3 Jessica's and 2 Brianna's.

This isn't about me judging the person or their parents or bearing them any ill will at all. It's about me being afraid of saying their name because I'm so afraid that I'm going to mispronounce it.

[KnitShoni]

Yes, our names CAN influence who we are and what we do. However, we all know it takes so much more than that. It is true that a person's name is part of their identity, but it is only part. To make judgements on the entirety of a person based on something that only comprises part of their identity is ridiculous. The question was, "since when does a name HAVE to dictate who and what we are as people?" No one asked whether or not it had some influence.

How do the people who come across names they think are stupid or unusual know for certain that the parents who gave their children these names didn't put any thought into them? That is the same as assuming parents who give their children "normal" names spend more effort considering them.

[the_std]

"For better or for worse, you make the most of what you've been given," says Dr Skinner. "Your own efforts can overwhelm the impact of a name, in the end it's just a small advantage or a small handicap."

- From the BBC article.

He can't say that one causes the other. Perhaps parents treat one daughter, Morgan, differently from an early age than they do her sister Elizabeth, whose name is much more feminine. “Did the parents choose that when they were choosing the name or did the name end up shaping their behavior toward their daughter?” Figlio said.

- From the CS Monitor article.

Some of it ends up being a proxy for the parents' philosophy on life in general," Twenge said. "The parent who says 'I want my kid to be unique and stand out' and gives their kid a name that’s uncommon, probably will have a parenting style that emphasizes uniqueness and standing out."

She added, "So it ends up building on itself. The type of parent who would give a really unusual name is often going to parent differently from a parent who says 'I want to give my child a name so they fit in.'"

Twenge's recent research suggests parents are, in fact, choosing more unusual baby names than decades ago.

- Also from the CS Monitor article.

What I'm getting from most of this is that A) it's peoples' prejudices about the names that affect how they deal with the people whose names are different (which I already addressed in my earlier post) and that B) it has much more to do with parenting style than it does with the name itself. The name is mostly a reflection of the parenting style. So this means the name has a lot less to do with it, and it's mostly parental intention.

Will get into this more when I'm at home.