TX Mom sentenced for spanking her child

[IDrinkaRum]

She was sentenced to 5 years probation

She didn't beat the child. Nor did she leave welts or broken skin. She did leave a few red marks, which caused the child's grandmother to take the child to the local children's hospital to have them checked out.

Here is another article where it states she didn't use a belt

The woman has 2 other children for a total of 3 children and she doesn't have custody of any of them. The paternal grandmother does.

[Andara Bledin]

Based on the information I can gather, this appears to be a case of an activist judge trying to turn his opinion into law.

An NPR article

The relevant information is this:

According to the Texas Attorney General's website, spanking is not illegal. "Texas law allows the use of force," it reads, "but not deadly force, against a child by the child's parent, guardian, or other person who is acting in loco parentis."

The website goes on to describe where the line between spanking and abuse might be. It seems the AG's opinion is that if it's in the buttocks, the parent uses their open hand, a brush or a belt and doesn't leave a "bruise, welt, or swelling," it's likely OK.

But Gonzales' case and especially what seemed like the judge's complete ban on spanking has ignited a great debate among parents on the Web.

This judge is not making a rule of law, but enforcing his opinion on this woman.

The big question that I cannot find answered anywhere, is this: how long was the delay between when the spanking was administered and when the grandmother noticed the marks? If this happened a few minutes later, it would be one thing, but if this was, say, half an hour later, then it could be considered a "bruise" for the purposes of legal definition.

Either way, the opinion of the judge is complete and utter bullshit, and I hope that he gets hammered for trying to change the law from the bench.

^-.-^

[tropicsgoddess]

That's bullshit! I can understand if it was welts, bruises and blood on the child or anything else that constitutes as child abuse but rosiness from spanking?!! What the hell?!! So long as it's not to a point that it's abusive, there is nothing wrong with spanking a child as means of discipline. Me and my sisters got spanked if we got out of line, we came out okay!

[Sarah Valentine]

Me, my siblings, and most of my friends were all spanked. Hell even our parents, there were no time outs we were raised old school. Just like TG we all came out perfectly fine.

[patiokitty]

When I read the article the only thing I could think was 'that grandmother is a raging bitch!' Why? Well, we don't know the story about why the mother doesn't have custody of her children but with how my mind is working lately (thanks to a recent run-in with my own bitch mother and her own threats to try to have my son taken from me...long story) that was the first thing my mind jumped to.

Assuming that the spanking was just one of those average run of the mill spankings that most of us received while growing up there was likely no need for the grandmother to haul the child to the ER. C'mon...going to the ER over a spanking?! Waste of time, in my mind.

To spank or not to spank...talk about a hot-button topic these days! And thinking back on it, I should have done my recent Ethics paper on it due to the various viewpoints on it. So many (too many, in my opinion) jump to the argument that spanking equals abuse - usually by people that have NO experience with what abuse is. It blows my mind some days.

Hell, I spanked my son's ass and promptly felt like supreme shit for it for days after. But not because I thought I had abused him (I know the difference...I lived it as a child) but because I had to spank him in the first place and I felt like a failure as a parent. It worked and I only spanked him a few times as he was growing up.

Over on PostSecret this week there is a card that talks about 'disciplining' a child that has sparked a huge row. One idiot said that being spanked as a child meant that you're now submissive as an adult...what a load of bullshit.

[Andara Bledin]

My favorite part of the whole "spanking is evil" crowd is that almost every single one of those people won't think twice about mental abuse. Cause, you know, if it isn't physical, it's not really abuse.

^-.-^

[mikoyan29]

Sometimes, I wonder if time out and getting sent to your room is worse than the spanking.

[Andara Bledin]

Sometimes, I wonder if time out and getting sent to your room is worse than the spanking.

Depends on the person. For me, time out meant nothing, but for my brother, just sending him to his room drove him nuts and his room was where we kept the toys.

^-.-^

[AdminAssistant]

I really don't understand the notion of, "I was spanked and turned out fine, so all children can be spanked!!!" I don't think that's true. It worked for YOU. Spanking never really worked for me, and my parents knew it. But did it anyway, because 1) that was what you did and 2) I think it made *them* feel better. Now, I'm not talking about a light swat on a toddler to keep them from touching the stove. I'm talking about, "You did something wrong, so we're going to whip you."

As Andara said, effective punishment depends on the kid. To always use spanking is lazy parenting, in my opinion.

[Greenday]

I really don't understand the notion of, "I was spanked and turned out fine, so all children can be spanked!!!" I don't think that's true. It worked for YOU. Spanking never really worked for me, and my parents knew it. But did it anyway, because 1) that was what you did and 2) I think it made *them* feel better. Now, I'm not talking about a light swat on a toddler to keep them from touching the stove. I'm talking about, "You did something wrong, so we're going to whip you."

As Andara said, effective punishment depends on the kid. To always use spanking is lazy parenting, in my opinion.

Well, this sums up my feelings on the subject pretty well. To kind of give you an idea of how I feel about spankings and such, here you go:

Will: He used to just put a belt, a stick, and a wrench on the kitchen table and say, "Choose."
Sean: Well, I gotta go with the belt there Vanna.
Will: I used to go with the wrench.
Sean: Why?
Will: Cause fuck him, that' why.

My response to that kind of abuse would be "Fuck you".

[Andara Bledin]

My mother was of the opinion that if you used a tool, that was going way too far. But then, I can't actually remember her spanking me. I remember my dad spanking me, once, and I know that they thought I deserved it and why and that I didn't agree with them on the matter. I was somewhere around 8 at the time.

She actually grew up in a household that suffered physical violence because her father was an angry drunk (he'd quit by the time I was born), but she didn't swear off corporal punishment entirely due to it and she never went overboard, which seems to be not typical from my limited experience.

^-.-^

[insertNameHere]

Lets see my grandma spanked me when needed, I feared pissing her off to the point I behaved. Spanking is fine,

as far as my parents I have had plenty of physical and emotion abuse over the years that I think that basic training will be a fucking joke because I am already bitched at over the dumbest shit and nothing I do is right, I got ONE fucking C in college the rest were As and I still get bitched at for how I didn't pass english and that is why I can get a fucking job and blah blah blah.

Or go in with after getting my ass beat I got the go ahead call child protective services, you can go live with some nice minorty family that will molest you and beat you repetitively till you go to another foster family that does the same thing.

I have been thrown 15ft across a room and that was only because I located the wall, can't remember if that was a C or a D in grade school.

So yeah don't beat the fuck out of your kids but some kids need to be told no with a little bit of spanking if neccessary. That way you don't have to actually do it again if the promise of a spanking if they mishave comes along.

[FArchivist]

Based on the information I can gather, this appears to be a case of an activist judge trying to turn his opinion into law.

[snip]
Either way, the opinion of the judge is complete and utter bullshit, and I hope that he gets hammered for trying to change the law from the bench.

I wouldn't be so hasty blaming this on the judge. If what you posted is the opinion of the Texas AG, then why did the prosecutor bring a felony charge against Mrs Gonzales? And why did Mrs Gonzales plead guilty against the charge instead of pleading innocent and going before a jury?

We're not getting the whole story here and I don't think it's as innocent as it sounds. A prosecutor does not bring felony charges unless they have proof that will stand up before a jury trial, which is what would have happened had Mrs Gonzales pled innocent.

[Rageaholic]

Sometimes, I wonder if time out and getting sent to your room is worse than the spanking.

For me it was.

Spanking lasted a few seconds, being sent up to my room was much longer. Then again, other parents may have made a bigger deal out of the spanking.

I don't think it's a black and white issue. I believe it comes down to why the kids are being spanked and how often they are spanked. I read this really disturbing story of this woman who was spanks so much as a kid (and for really minor stuff) that she was psychologically messed up as a result. What was creepy was this prolonged "spanking ritual" that their parents had for every little screw up she made. And of course, these wonderful parenting practices came from some religious idiot's book.

If you go by that authors advice, than yeah, I'd call that abuse, but I also believe parents can apply the punishment fairly and reasonably without going overboard.

[Andara Bledin]

I wouldn't be so hasty blaming this on the judge. If what you posted is the opinion of the Texas AG, then why did the prosecutor bring a felony charge against Mrs Gonzales? And why did Mrs Gonzales plead guilty against the charge instead of pleading innocent and going before a jury?

First, there is a reason I started my post with the words, "Based on the information I can gather."

Second, it's the duty of the prosecutor to try to get a conviction, and often they'll bring ridiculous charges in an attempt to get the defendant to plea down. Plus, I find it likely that the judge's opinion would not have been a mystery - he seemed quite biased based on the snippets quoted.

Third, because she was ignorant/stupid/frightened/uninformed (take your pick), and I would put even odds on her public defender being ineffective. Some are good, some are terrible, and most are worked beyond their ability to handle.

^-.-^